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Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#101

Post by colinb »

srean wrote: post #84
suriyaG wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). octopus passing a intelligence test does not keep it above the fold, neither does cattle go below the fold because they don't clear the bar (surprise, cattle are equally emotional, smart, curious etc.). sounds wrong when I type it out but that is just the truth. milk is actually more ethically wrong when you think about it (…

Yes I don't get it why milk is considered more ethically sound than eggs in my country. Milk is stolen baby food extracted industrially under not so nice conditions. Precision-Fermented (animal-Free) milk does exist but it is not easily available. Unfertilized eggs are products that come out anyway and cannot become a chick till it is successfully fertilized outside of the hen. Granted that these two are extracted in…

Your italicised text is /exactly/ wrong. Hen eggs are fertilised inside the hen’s oviduct. I mean, eggs are somewhat porous after laying, but they’re not that porous.

(I don’t know about you. I’m just a programmer holding strong opinions about avian physiology. Maybe there’s an actual biologist on the plane who can correct me)

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#103

Post by 21asdffdsa12 »

suriyaG wrote: post #42
hermitcrab wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). octopus passing a intelligence test does not keep it above the fold, neither does cattle go below the fold because they don't clear the bar (surprise, cattle are equally emotional, smart, curious etc.). sounds wrong when I type it out but that is just the truth. milk is actually more ethically wrong when you think about it (…

I think, in a cthullian universe, its actually very acceptable- as long as you accept the burden of upholding the habitat of the hunted. The predator is responsible for the continued existence and the thriving of the prey. So, one should sink concrete pylons with sawblades to destroy the dragnet fishing fleet.

Purity spirals are madness and a brittle luxury, edangering nature and the world, the moment the surplus financing that luxury snaps.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#104

Post by dudefeliciano »

suriyaG wrote: post #73
pitched wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked study does show that correlation. But I personally believe it’s more of a second-order effect. Vegetarianism selects for openness and analytical/reflective thinking but the extra step to veganism selects for absolutism/purity and rigid category-based thinking. Reflective thinking and openness are definitely correlated to IQ so I believe the result in the article. The point here is to know your audience. Th…

> Vegetarianism selects for openness and analytical/reflective thinking but the extra step to veganism selects for absolutism/purity I don't follow how you conclude this at all. there is nothing to indicate this is the case.

Vegetarianism, in Europe at least, requires one to be open to a different diet than what one is used to, usually going against social and cultural norms due to a personal conviction that is reached by analysis and reflection, while veganism brings that to the extreme

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#105

Post by neuroticnews25 »

suriyaG wrote: post #42
hermitcrab wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). octopus passing a intelligence test does not keep it above the fold, neither does cattle go below the fold because they don't clear the bar (surprise, cattle are equally emotional, smart, curious etc.). sounds wrong when I type it out but that is just the truth. milk is actually more ethically wrong when you think about it (…

Is the isolation necessary or just an implementation detail? When my family had a goat we didn't do anything like that, the kids grew freely sucking the mother and then she was giving milk for years after that.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#106

Post by srean »

colinb wrote: post #101
srean wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I don't get it why milk is considered more ethically sound than eggs in my country. Milk is stolen baby food extracted industrially under not so nice conditions. Precision-Fermented (animal-Free) milk does exist but it is not easily available. Unfertilized eggs are products that come out anyway and cannot become a chick till it is successfully fertilized outside of the hen. Granted that these two are extracted in…

Your italicised text is /exactly/ wrong. Hen eggs are fertilised inside the hen’s oviduct. I mean, eggs are somewhat porous after laying, but they’re not that porous. (I don’t know about you. I’m just a programmer holding strong opinions about avian physiology. Maybe there’s an actual biologist on the plane who can correct me)

Oh! Thanks for correcting me. Now I learned that the egg is fertilized (if at all) before the shell is formed. The hen would lay the egg anyway fertilization or no fertilization.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#107

Post by magicalhippo »

goatlover wrote: post #7
BatFastard wrote: post #4

I found the article very interesting. Not click bait at all. I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body.

It's like 9 brains, one central one in the head and 8 semi-autonomous ones in the arms. Makes one wonder what an octopus consciousness is like. Is it distributed among the nine brains, or focused on the central one? If the latter then the arm-brains would be zombie minds. It's also possible the 8 arms have their own separate experiences. We also have a nervous system distributed throughout our bodies, so we do experi…

Certain conjoined twins also have multiple brains in a single body, like the Hensel sisters[1]. In their case, they each control one arm and one leg, but are otherwise quite independent. I seem to recall they said they can both feel the whole body, at least to some degree.

So perhaps a bit similar, perhaps entirely different.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_and_Brittany_Hensel

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#108

Post by rendall »

suriyaG wrote: post #76
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the study is from France?

it was an example of a correlation != causation the parent comment was basically creating a causational logic for why vegetarians are more likely to be "smart"-er. which is not true.

> > Compared with meat-eaters, vegetarians were more likely to have a higher educational level, whereas vegans had a lower education level

> this is such a... wrong conclusion to make from the study. the study has found a correlation and by no means is it a causation.

I'm not seeing any assertion of causation from that quote.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#109

Post by Nursie »

fittingopposite wrote: post #98
blamestross wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Octopi essentially consent. They are avid cannibals. In the octopi universe eating an octopi is clearly ok.

Fyi octopus is a Greek not Latin word (meaning 8 feet) and its correct plural would be rather octopodes.

Octopi is equally correct because we're speaking English and frequency of use trumps etymological cromulence.

Octopuses works too. I quite like "Octopods" because -podes is unusual in English, though not entirely absent (see Antipodes).

(I'm not sure "an Octopi" is correct in any of these cases!)

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#110

Post by kakacik »

suriyaG wrote: post #65
pitched wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28926931/ > Compared with meat-eaters, vegetarians were more likely to have a higher educational level, whereas vegans had a lower education level I think it’s good to question these things but the people who go full black/white on everything is where that whole movement died. Saying something strong like “eating any meat” will generally not win over hackers. But “we won’t bring cows t…

> Compared with meat-eaters, vegetarians were more likely to have a higher educational level, whereas vegans had a lower education level this is such a... wrong conclusion to make from the study. the study has found a correlation and by no means is it a causation. there are so many cultural, societal reasons for this to be the case. (eg. in india, upper caste people are usually vegetarians who generally have more acc…

Dude, most of India are vegetarians. If you have seen the sanitary conditions for storing meat (or at least in 2008/2010 when I backpacked around the country), you would also become one. I certainly did.

Curries with meat were more expensive than vegetable ones in every dhaba. The bonus of not having to pick tiny pieces of meat from heap of chicken bones was a nice bonus (since touching food with hands was generally a very bad idea, sanitizer or not).

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