Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Where did all the public bathrooms go?

daily.jstor.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 873 posts

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#501

Post by vintermann »

ajmurmann wrote: post #466
SchemaLoad wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what China has done. Aside from drug crimes it doesn't seem like they punish any harsher than the rest of the world, they just have an incredibly good ability to follow up. If you smash the window of a store, they will find you and you'll have to pay for it. Just the knowledge that there is an almost 100% chance of having to pay to restore anything you break seems all that's needed to stop the destruction of…

On the less extreme end, Europe also has much higher rates of catching criminals and punishes then less. I understand the US is really the outlier. I read an interesting article that laid out how that's ultimately rooted in what level of government pays for what. It's easier for local politicians to call for harsher punishment because prisons are run by state or federal but police is funded locally.

I don't think the police is underfunded in the US though?

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#502

Post by herbst »

Tallain wrote: post #256
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I lived for many years in China and Thailand, and toilets are free, clean, and plentiful there I don't know about China but this was the opposite of my experience in Thailand. The majority of public toilets I encountered had an attendant you had to pay for access. Shopping malls / hotels / other places were you were already paying to be there were the exception of course.

In every part of Thailand I've been to outside BKK, there's a gas station almost every few kilometers on every major road. Almost every gas station has a public restroom that's open 24/7, unattended. The ones that don't have a public restroom are typically right next to a string of restaurants that have a restroom you can use during the day for free if you ask.

I've seen people shit in the jungle because what you describe has only been the case near Bangkok and Chiang Mai for me.

Just because they smile when you ask a random restaurant for using the toilet does not actually mean they are happy when people do.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#503

Post by phyzix5761 »

dgoldstein0 wrote: post #460
socalgal2 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We did as little as possible to deal with homelessness and mental illness SF would beg to differ. They have a budget of $100k per homeless person. They can't solve the problem because the problem is not money

SF - and probably much of the US homeless problem elsewhere - is largely cost of housing; rent and home prices are ridiculous enough that if you don't make big bucks, you are likely barely scraping by. Rents here are rising way faster than inflation, and it makes everything more expensive and means a lot more people are living that much closer to not being able to pay their rent. Way easier to end up homeless after l…

[flagged]

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#504

Post by zhivota »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #453
ajmurmann wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have pointed out the US has a massive prison population. Our problem isn't insufficiently harsh punishment. Our problem is unlikely punishment. The US spends more on incarceration and less on policing and the justice system. You are less likely to get caught and punished in the US but if you get punished it's harsher. Yet studies have shown that a milder punishment that happens more swiftly and with higher…

This is what China has done. Aside from drug crimes it doesn't seem like they punish any harsher than the rest of the world, they just have an incredibly good ability to follow up. If you smash the window of a store, they will find you and you'll have to pay for it. Just the knowledge that there is an almost 100% chance of having to pay to restore anything you break seems all that's needed to stop the destruction of…

The thing there that the West has not been able to accept to achieve this is the surveillance state. Just look at Flock.

I'm not sure anyone has really cracked how to get it done without that part, though certainly tweaking the spending from prisons to police would help a lot. The trouble in the US at least is people (rightly) don't trust police, and don't want to give them more power, so it also needs to be paired with reform on that front for the population to accept it.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#505

Post by zhivota »

vintermann wrote: post #501
ajmurmann wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the less extreme end, Europe also has much higher rates of catching criminals and punishes then less. I understand the US is really the outlier. I read an interesting article that laid out how that's ultimately rooted in what level of government pays for what. It's easier for local politicians to call for harsher punishment because prisons are run by state or federal but police is funded locally.

I don't think the police is underfunded in the US though?

It simultaneously is and isn't. It's overfunded on things that don't matter for the problem at hand - traffic enforcement using full fledged officers in expensive vehicles, militarized SWAT teams, regulations requiring huge officer presence at all events, etc. But it's underfunded on what would change things for the better - foot patrols, investigation, etc.

This is why you can get pulled over for a broken taillight in the US and have 3 police cars behind you complete with a K9 unit, but if that same car gets stolen, you'll probably get asked to make a report and never hear a peep from the police again.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#506

Post by olmo23 »

ajmurmann wrote: post #406
socalgal2 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We did as little as possible to deal with homelessness and mental illness SF would beg to differ. They have a budget of $100k per homeless person. They can't solve the problem because the problem is not money

What do you suggest the solution is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#507

Post by deadfoxygrandpa »

podocarp wrote: post #436
joshuat wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stronger punishments? Probably not, but better enforcement? I believe so. It has repeatedly been shown that the severity of punishment does not sway crime nearly as much as the certainty of punishment does [1]. This all feels like a byproduct of the hyper-individualism we have in the West and the US, especially. [1] https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/670398

Indeed. Wasn't there a study where a policeman stationed on a street corner decreased crime or something even if he was just standing there doing nothing? Like a scarecrow effect. Of course people will come out and scream Gestapo! And talk about their freedoms, but are the only two choices in life complete anarchy and a police state? Can't we live somewhere in the middle like a reasonable society? It's really just sl…

there are police booths on many street corners in urban areas of china. they're very common, and people don't act afraid of them. the most common interaction you see is people asking them for directions

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#508

Post by lovich »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #392
lovich wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was a cart pusher at target and was frequently shanghaid into cleaning toilets. I think you might be giving away the class you were raised in if you think it’s infeasible to pay people to clean toilets.

I think it is infeasible because I saw restrooms become less numerous and more restricted over the past 4 decades. If it was feasible, the OP’s article wouldn’t be describing a real phenomenon. As for the class I was raised in, my parents worked 24/7, my mom cleaned 20+ bathrooms every day, and my parents, myself and my sister slept in one room until I was 16 years old. I have also worked at places where public restr…

>I think it is infeasible because I saw restrooms become less numerous and more restricted over the past 4 decades.

Cool.

My point was that I was a minimum wage worker and still cleaning toilets. Did it for minimum wage. There were many other coworkers doing the same.

You said

> Try hiring someone for a job where the job could sometimes be cleaning up bodily fluids and odors in a bathroom. Even the government deems it infeasible.

That's only plausible if you were unwilling to do so yourself and couldn't conceive of anyone else doing the job.

Its literally one of the lowest paid jobs there is.

If you are claiming its infeasible to pay for someone to do that job, you are just saying you dont think that anyone should be paid to do the job.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#509

Post by vintermann »

ipaddr wrote: post #458
Gud wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I’m from, Sweden, typically it is the second and third generation immigrants who exhibit antisocial behaviour.

Its true im many places. First generation hard working. Second generation lives in the inprint of the first generation. Third generation has no connection to the original homeland and tries to find connection or it turns to antisocial behaviour.

Worth specifying that this also applies to the "good" immigrants such as the Poles, not just the much vilified Muslims. The kids of Polish immigrants really struggle. And if you go a generation back, the Vietnamese boat refugees had similar issues: their kids really had issues, there were Vietnamese criminal gangs in Oslo in the 90s. The ex-Yugoslav organized crime groups were maybe more notable in that they were often first generation, but they're mostly a memory too by now. Then there's the "hapas", children of Asian women who immigrated by marrying native men. Scandinavia hasn't seen much trouble with them - yet. But I think there's some danger here, online I've seen some worrying communities.

I think identity rootlessness is an underestimated factor in immigration woes. Youth of all kinds can often be exploited into adopting a destructive self-identity, but some groups are more vulnerable. One notorious Swedish gang actively recruits from the foster care system.

Post reply on HN