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Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

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Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#51

Post by godelski »

claytonjy wrote: post #20

Betteridge’s law prevails. A fun read, but not as fun as the title suggests. tl;dr Modern art existed before the CIA and even CIA predecessors did not originate it, but they did push it abroad to show that America is great because we put up with modern art made by socialists depite most americans disliking both the art and the artists

Exactly, it is a weird title. Modern art is as much of a "psy-op" as:

  - grocery stores
  - NASA
  - rock music
  - psychedelics and hippies
  - a strong middle class
  - affordable vehicles and the highway system
  - Hollywood movies
  - Books
and just about anything. Cultural "warfare" is a different ballgame. K-Pop and K-dramas are "cultural warfare" from Korea. J-pop and anime from Japan (here's a clickbait title: Was Studio Ghibli a Japanese Psy-Op?). So is Thai Food and avocados. Anything that makes the country look good or even become more well known outside its borders can be considered a "psy-op". But not in the sense that any reasonable person would interpret the term...

That said, the article is still interesting and I wouldn't ignore it just because the dumb title.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#54

Post by vlovich123 »

keiferski wrote: post #43

Pretty embarrassing that this is the title of a post on JSTOR. Modern art started in the late 1800s, long before the CIA or its predecessor existed. Using this term to describe contemporary art, or abstract art more generally, is an (anti?) shibboleth that indicates you don’t really know what you’re talking about. I realize the article is about mid century artists, but I’m certain it’s being upvoted here because peop…

Did you actually read the article? It lays out a pretty compelling case that the CIA established funding sources and magazines to popularize American modern art and make it a worldwide phenomenon / a cultural export to have Americans be taken seriously as taste makers.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#55

Post by keiferski »

vlovich123 wrote: post #54
keiferski wrote: post #43

Pretty embarrassing that this is the title of a post on JSTOR. Modern art started in the late 1800s, long before the CIA or its predecessor existed. Using this term to describe contemporary art, or abstract art more generally, is an (anti?) shibboleth that indicates you don’t really know what you’re talking about. I realize the article is about mid century artists, but I’m certain it’s being upvoted here because peop…

Did you actually read the article? It lays out a pretty compelling case that the CIA established funding sources and magazines to popularize American modern art and make it a worldwide phenomenon / a cultural export to have Americans be taken seriously as taste makers.

Yes, I did and as I said, the title is pretty out of line with the actual article. Which itself has almost zero mention of modern art / 1930s-40-50s art outside of the American context.

Modern art was not a CIA psy op. Modern art precedes the CIA by a century. Mid-century American art was popularized in part by American government organizations. These are entirely different claims.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#56

Post by andrewmlevy »

soulofmischief wrote: post #37
evanjrowley wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's postmodern art, not modern art.

I agree. All I see here is someone following in the footsteps of pioneers such as Andy Warhol. His own pink banana was very polarizing in his time.

relevant! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM4tPXaLYz8

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#57

Post by jychang »

dang wrote: post #48

Related. Others? Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36155204 - June 2023 (332 comments) Was Modern Art Really a CIA Psy-Op? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23525366 - June 2020 (7 comments) Also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42987770 (Feb 2025) Did John Steinbeck Spy for the CIA? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20587547 - Aug 2019 (33 comments) https://new…

Man, this might be a case where the average HN reader is less informed than the general public.

I thought this was well known. Like, the Men In Black movies literally have a scene lampshading this.

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