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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#681

Post by deepsun »

yardie wrote: post #29

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed…

In US laws are also different between states, for example some products are compostable in Arkansas but are not compostable in California.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#683

Post by podocarp »

Being responsible for collection is such a dumb way to do it. Collection doesn't even occur. Can someone explain to an outsider what these laws are motivated by? They seem so far removed from reality. Isn't a flat tax on all packaging like plastic bags in supermarkets going to be more efficient?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#684

Post by baxtr »

anigbrowl wrote: post #600

Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1... None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the disc…

I don’t know who is right or who is wrong.

The mere fact that people seem to be highly confused (I saw many posts about that the last week) speaks volumes.

Why introduce legislation that is so complex and hard to understand that people seem to be confused wether or not they’re affected. It’s highly irresponsible and arrogant thing to do.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#685

Post by s1artibartfast »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #484
FpUser wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're replying to a comment that proposes a market-based solution. Shipping has externalities. Those externalities should be included in the cost of shipping. Then the market will make the right decision.

They did not make the argument of externalities. My impression was that they tax the shit out of things they don't like personally, to minimize their consumption.

This is much closer to a sin tax.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#687

Post by johanvts »

mns wrote: post #241
mstaoru wrote: post #190

I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not), but I can share how it is done in China (where package volume is orders of magnitude higher). China identifies "choke points" most packages pass: large platforms and logistics companies. Yes, Chinese e-commerce is more centralized on Alibaba/JD/PDD etc, but there are actually much more logistics companies in China than in EU. They also do not intr…

> They also do not introduce these regulations "from tomorrow" This wasn't introduced "from tomorrow", people had 1 year and a half to prepare for this (at least) or to protest this. See some comments below how individual countries actually messed this up. > But of course EU is fundamentally different in a way that the politicians need to please the electorate, so nothing is really planned ahead. > I don't know if th…

Wrt recycled plastic content its more like 6 years (2024-2030), so much like outlined for China.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#688

Post by retired »

fallingbananna wrote: post #286
mstaoru wrote: post #190

I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not), but I can share how it is done in China (where package volume is orders of magnitude higher). China identifies "choke points" most packages pass: large platforms and logistics companies. Yes, Chinese e-commerce is more centralized on Alibaba/JD/PDD etc, but there are actually much more logistics companies in China than in EU. They also do not intr…

>Could EU just ask DHL/Hermes/whatever to charge an additional €1 "for recycling"? Yes, but... Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China. And in Austria we will soon pay additional ~€2 for every delivered package. And 20% VAT. Edit: I am pretty sure at least some part of these already contribute towards recycling. The goal here is likely not just to get more funding for recycling, but rather to use materia…

Not just China. Also packages from Japan and Thailand get this charge.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#689

Post by bluegatty »

philipallstar wrote: post #287
dragochat wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all people are somewhat corrupt or incompentent. that's why it only makes sense so think in broader terms, and a broader level regulatory capture absolutely exists. the problem is that to solve regulatory capture in the EU parts of governments would have so go to war against corporations on the part of SMBs. but... governments in Europe de facto don't even recognize the right to exist of SMBs, basically _nothin_ of t…

It seems odd to blame lobbying (which you could also "rule of the universe" out of existence by saying everyone lobbies to some extent) when you seem to actually be blaming EU governments for being so hostile to SMBs.

All regulations favour some groups more than others.

Exempting small business could easily be viewed as hostile / corrupt regulation disfavouring large entities.

These kinds of regulations are usually not even welcome by larger companies, but there is less pushback.

'packaging' isn't the place to use the c-word.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#690

Post by emsign »

thesimon wrote: post #637
rvba wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DHL charges 1 eur for recycling, which it pockets since the envelope or box with thr product went to the consumer... who throws it away to the segregated garbage bin - for which every consumer also pays.

> for which every consumer also pays. Idk, at least in Germany paper and (plastic) recycling is free. I only have to pay for organic trash and trash to be burned.

That's correct. In Germany we pay "indirectly" via the end price. Meaning whoever has to pay the afforementioned EPR fee is free to add their cost to the price of the product.
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