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One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

cnn.com

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Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#121

Post by ericmay »

colechristensen wrote: post #119
ericmay wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll do you one better, you shouldn’t even spend any time engaging in a debate with people who believe the earth is flat because they don’t want to change their mind. It doesn’t really matter if the earth is flat or not, for them it’s about being part of a community of people who believe in something that society tells them is wrong. There is no changing minds besides the 1 in a million you hear about and so all the…

If you're so disinterested why are you talking about it now? Better to focus your attention on something you're not going to be so dismissive and negative about unless your hobby is being an asshole.

I was just browsing comments and read yours and thought it prudent for others to realize what they were dealing with when it came to flat earth theorists so that they protect their time. I’ve probably at this point already saved dozens of seconds for someone.

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#122

Post by emmelaich »

guyzero wrote: post #33
graemep wrote: post #11

Its a Chinese equivalent of the phantom time theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_conspiracy_theory Its just as silly as phantom time and covers almost exactly the same period. The motive is possibly racist which makes it more sinister.

Back in the early 2000's, well before most social media sites existed, I had a coworker who shared with me a number of questionable theories, one of which was basically this. He also believed very passionately that plate tectonics was wrong. Unfortunately social media didn't invent brain worms.

There were plenty of conspiracy sites pre-2000. I think a lot of them shared mindspace with USA late night talk radio. Also, usenet.

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#123

Post by AnimalMuppet »

thataccount wrote: post #118
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, specifically, did Fauci say that could be interpreted as "Covid isn't real"?

This https://www.foxnews.com/politics/exposed-fauci-diary-shows-e... for starters.

1. "Doesn't have the death rate I publicly stated" is very different from what you claimed.

2. At that time, information about Covid was changing somewhat rapidly. By the time he testified to Congress weeks later, he may well have had better information. (Look, I am very much not a Fauci apologist. But you need to do better than this at finding reasons to condemn him.)

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#124

Post by ajross »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #29

There are primary sources. There are archeological sites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianling_Mausoleum There are also histories written just after the Tang Dynasty had fallen. It was considered good form for a new dynasty to write a historical review of the previous one, and there are two retrospectives on Tang, e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Book_of_Tang And there is ironclad evidence from foreign sourc…

> later Chinese would speak of Xia the way Romans would speak of Troy

Troy was indeed largely fabricated though! Really I think that's of a piece with stuff being, y'know, really old. There are big holes in Sumerian and Egyption history too (though the latter helped out a ton by digging secret tombs and hiding them really well). Post-classical Mayan history is pretty suspect in a lot of places, etc...

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#125

Post by einichi »

geokon wrote: post #106
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And thus for a very long time, and even today to some extent, the Japanese (or their cultural theorists at any rate!) have viewed themselves as the inheritors of "true" Ancient Chinese culture -- unsullied by Mongol/Manchu/Communist influence. There's some truth to this. The Japanese preserved certain Tang Dynasty customs which were lost to China, and they have some of the best collections of Tang-era artifacts. This…

In my experience the Chinese very much think this as well. Though it can be framed in a more derogatory way as "derivative" or "they just copied us" I'd argue its difficult to find major aspects of Japanese culture that don't trace back to ancient China (maybe the language, eating raw food and sumo)

Shinto is a big one

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#126

Post by thataccount »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #123
thataccount wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This https://www.foxnews.com/politics/exposed-fauci-diary-shows-e... for starters.

1. "Doesn't have the death rate I publicly stated" is very different from what you claimed. 2. At that time, information about Covid was changing somewhat rapidly. By the time he testified to Congress weeks later, he may well have had better information. (Look, I am very much not a Fauci apologist. But you need to do better than this at finding reasons to condemn him.)

1. Inflating death rates to claim something is a pandemic is not very different. It was at worst a "bad flu," which is what many Q posts were indicating. You don't need a lockdown for a "Bad flu". You also don't need masks.

2. You seem to think I need to do better than this, but if this were a trial what I have provided is sufficient to establish motive. The dude wanted to be famous, and didn't mind who died to get him there or what kind of lies he needed to tell to climb that mountain.

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#129

Post by jurip »

ecshafer wrote: post #86
NotThatFast wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was he reading Neal Adams? I have to admit - Expanding Earth is hard to debunk! I think because like Flat Earth many of the observations and elements therein are accurate - they just get the overall picture wrong. Like stealing the ball with 4 sec left running down the court no defense in sight for the winning layup and missing - comically bouncing off the backboard. Alas, I believe most crackpots mean well, they jus…

Many of the more esoteric conspiracy theories are hard to debunk. Lets take the earth if round, prove it. You can bring up many cases, sails disappearing behind the horizon, goemetry, etc. but actually doing these measurements and calculations cold is pretty hard. And whenever you bring up a fact, they will dismiss it out of hand. Tectonic plates, I believe they exist, I have seen the evidence in books. But I doubt I…

Conspiracy theorists can also be really into their stuff. Someone who believes the moon landings never happened and who is enthusiastic about that can probably recall a huge number of facts, whereas I can't even recall the years the flights happened, or the names of more than two of the astronauts. That stuff is just pretty irrelevant to a random member of the general public.

Re: One corner of China’s internet is insisting that the Tang Dynasty never existed

#130

Post by AlexCoventry »

The Economist had a similar article [1] about Han chauvinism leading to rejection of the Qing dynasty, and causing quite a headache for the CCP.

> In China’s official narrative, the country suffered a “century of humiliation” of foreign invasions, starting with the first opium war in 1840 and ending only with Mao’s rise to power in 1949. But the 1644 view—cheekily expressed by some online as “three centuries of humiliation”—argues that subjugation began with the Qing. According to this school, the Qing were anti-Han interlopers and, making matters worse, feckless in repelling foreign forces.

> Dredging up all this history is uncomfortable for the party. The territorial boundaries claimed by modern China—including Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia and Taiwan—were brought into the Chinese empire by the Qing, not the Ming. Grievances about the Manchus also cut against the ideal of ethnic harmony advanced by the party. Although much of what forms modern Chinese identity is derived from Han traditions, it is unseemly to talk openly about the dominance of this one ethnic group, which accounts for 90% of the Chinese population. The party looks askance at “Han chauvinism”, believing, with reason, that it may lead to more resentment from non-Han groups.

[1]: https://www.economist.com/china/2026/07/20/why-criticism-of-...

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