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MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

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Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#251

Post by flatline »

protocolture wrote: post #216
brian-armstrong wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who still use Windows yet complain about this are quite confusing to me. There's been every indication that it will keep going like this for years now, and the cost of switching is just not that high. If you're still riding that train it's time to just embrace it.

>The people who still use Windows yet complain about this are quite confusing to me. What confuses me is how people think theres anything close to an alternative for corporate environments. Windows isnt Windows. Windows is the best supported OS by the Microsoft cloud stack. They get away with this sort of nonsense because large corps have nowhere to go. >the cost of switching is just not that high. Lol, lmao even. Th…

I’m not sure why you were downvoted. I have to use Windows for work. The barrier to entry is simply lower for many system administrators and users alike. The homogeneity of a Windows rollout is extremely attractive. You are going to have a hard sell getting your accounting team and receptionist onto Linux. Your developers will complain and make do. I love complaining about Windows!

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#252

Post by samplatt »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #210
qu4z-2 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't so much mind about Paint, but modern Notepad is completely unusable. We had "Notepad but with Rich Text formatting" -- it was called WordPad and no-one used it so they eventually deleted it.

The people who still use Windows yet complain about this are quite confusing to me. There's been every indication that it will keep going like this for years now, and the cost of switching is just not that high. If you're still riding that train it's time to just embrace it.

>the cost of switching is just not that high

Oh, my sweet summer child. Please realise that such blanket statements like that are profoundly ignorant. (Note: I'm running an entirely Windows-free household. )

The problem is changing the way companies build themselves up to work. Business logic. Even for medium-sized companies (100-1000 heads), what you're proposing is paying scores of business analysts months (years?) worth of time to review business processes, before you even get the teams of IT people to start making the switchover.

And that's not even taking into considering the fact that many large software packages simply do not work under nix and there is no realistic alternative. Basically every industry related to engineering simply cannot switch.

The processes and systems required to build Big Things in the real world are gargantuan and terrifying and sickening. Companies spend hundreds of millions every year putting up with Microsoft's bullshit because there is no alternative.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#253

Post by skissane »

protocolture wrote: post #216
brian-armstrong wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who still use Windows yet complain about this are quite confusing to me. There's been every indication that it will keep going like this for years now, and the cost of switching is just not that high. If you're still riding that train it's time to just embrace it.

>The people who still use Windows yet complain about this are quite confusing to me. What confuses me is how people think theres anything close to an alternative for corporate environments. Windows isnt Windows. Windows is the best supported OS by the Microsoft cloud stack. They get away with this sort of nonsense because large corps have nowhere to go. >the cost of switching is just not that high. Lol, lmao even. Th…

> They get away with this sort of nonsense because large corps have nowhere to go.

I think a lot of large corps could function quite well with a model like: (a) allow employees to choose a MacBook instead; (b) use various macOS enterprise management tools (such as Jamf); (c) use Windows virtual desktops for Windows-only apps

The main reason many don’t isn’t because this strategy won’t work - it is because it would cost them significantly more than a Windows-only strategy. So they won’t do it, or they will but limit it to only certain job functions (engineering, executives, sales) where the business benefit is clearer

The problem with adding Linux to the mix, is the variability of hardware and distributions can make it a lot more complex to manage, compared to a Windows-only or Windows+Mac fleet. And you also need people in your IT org with the skillset to handle it

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#254

Post by protocolture »

skissane wrote: post #253
protocolture wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The people who still use Windows yet complain about this are quite confusing to me. What confuses me is how people think theres anything close to an alternative for corporate environments. Windows isnt Windows. Windows is the best supported OS by the Microsoft cloud stack. They get away with this sort of nonsense because large corps have nowhere to go. >the cost of switching is just not that high. Lol, lmao even. Th…

> They get away with this sort of nonsense because large corps have nowhere to go. I think a lot of large corps could function quite well with a model like: (a) allow employees to choose a MacBook instead; (b) use various macOS enterprise management tools (such as Jamf); (c) use Windows virtual desktops for Windows-only apps The main reason many don’t isn’t because this strategy won’t work - it is because it would co…

>The main reason many don’t isn’t because this strategy won’t work - it is because it would cost them significantly more than a Windows-only strategy. So they won’t do it, or they will but limit it to only certain job functions (engineering, executives, sales) where the business benefit is clearer

Yeah VDI is getting close to universal adoption, but security is always where things come back to. Eventually an end user is going to have something sensitive on their macbook, and they will have fallen through some sort of compliance gap.

Its easier from a compliance standpoint to control everything permissible.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#255

Post by a-dub »

clickety_clack wrote: post #179

I admit it’s a while since I’ve used windows, but it’s such a shock to hear that MS Paint isn’t just a point and click pixel coloring app anymore. It seems like they could have left it as a pure “paint” app and added the fancy stuff to some new image editor or something. I guess they’ve optimized their workforce to just keep making changes so they get promoted rather than just creating really good software.

it is kind of interesting when you think about it. what utility does something like paint actually have? did it ever have any real utility? (icon editing?) it always kinda felt like a demo that came with early versions of windows that didn't actually do anything useful.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#256

Post by buzer »

SideQuark wrote: post #185
clickety_clack wrote: post #179

I admit it’s a while since I’ve used windows, but it’s such a shock to hear that MS Paint isn’t just a point and click pixel coloring app anymore. It seems like they could have left it as a pure “paint” app and added the fancy stuff to some new image editor or something. I guess they’ve optimized their workforce to just keep making changes so they get promoted rather than just creating really good software.

If you read the article instead of the headline…….. it’s adding a fairly standard mark to AI generated images to let’s others know, in the same manner a giant swath of the GebAI industry has agreed to.

I don't think adding an identifier which can most likely be mapped back to user is "standard mark".

It doesn't explicitly say it, but there is hardly any other reason why it would add server generated ID (from authenticated session) to the saved file.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#257

Post by Aerroon »

a-dub wrote: post #255
clickety_clack wrote: post #179

I admit it’s a while since I’ve used windows, but it’s such a shock to hear that MS Paint isn’t just a point and click pixel coloring app anymore. It seems like they could have left it as a pure “paint” app and added the fancy stuff to some new image editor or something. I guess they’ve optimized their workforce to just keep making changes so they get promoted rather than just creating really good software.

it is kind of interesting when you think about it. what utility does something like paint actually have? did it ever have any real utility? (icon editing?) it always kinda felt like a demo that came with early versions of windows that didn't actually do anything useful.

Cropping and editing screenshots (eg add red circle) in a very lightweight application.

Other image editing applications can do all of that, but they take 10 years to launch (during which they will ask for focus) and 2 GB of RAM.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#258

Post by buzer »

stronglikedan wrote: post #11
ComputerGuru wrote: post #2

AI-generated text warning (I submitted - but did not author - the piece), but it seems MS Paint and MS Photos add both a visible (can be turned off) and invisible (cannot be disabled and happens silently in the background with no user notice) watermarks to photos that have been AI-manipulated, even when using a local model to perform the action. It's not clear if this applies to even things like using AI-enhanced bac…

> AI-generated text warning This seems incorrect to me. Are you basing that on the use of bullet points?

There are several paragraphs where output looks very AI-like (and Claude flavored one at that), e.g.

> In other words, “generated locally” does not mean that the complete operation is local. Microsoft receives and moderates the prompt, then issues the unique GUID that Paint embeds into the locally generated image. Paint also sends the previous promptGenerationId as lastPromptGenerationId with its next moderation request, allowing successive requests to be linked explicitly.

> That relationship is important. C2PA calls this a soft binding: a value derived from, or embedded into, the content so that the content can still be matched with its provenance record after the file-level manifest has been removed. For a watermark soft binding, the value is the watermark’s content identifier. Microsoft cryptographically signed this assertion.

> After an AI result is applied to the Paint canvas, the available formats are still restricted to PNG, JPEG, GIF, and Paint’s own .paint format. BMP—the classic Paint format—is conspicuously absent.

Personally it didn't bother me too much.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#259

Post by altmanaltman »

weberer wrote: post #24

The AI aspect of this is a red herring. The real problem is that they're secretly adding in a unique identifier into every image you create. If somebody does not like your meme, they can just send a copyright subpoena to Microsoft to instantly get your full name, address, email, phone number, and any other data associated with your Microsoft account. Just like age verification, this is another weapon in the war again…

Why would they need to subpoena Microsoft and why will Microsoft hand them the data if someone doesn't like my meme? I understand what you are trying to say but it does not make a whole lot of sense even from Microsoft pov. They are not bound by law to hand over personal data to anyone without a warrant issued. If a warrant is issued then it is their lawful duty to give that data, the same would be done by you if you were in their shoes or your office or your family. Law is not optional to follow. But Microsoft doesn't need to do watermarking on memes to track you or to do this as a war against "internet anonymity".

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#260

Post by opan »

a-dub wrote: post #255
clickety_clack wrote: post #179

I admit it’s a while since I’ve used windows, but it’s such a shock to hear that MS Paint isn’t just a point and click pixel coloring app anymore. It seems like they could have left it as a pure “paint” app and added the fancy stuff to some new image editor or something. I guess they’ve optimized their workforce to just keep making changes so they get promoted rather than just creating really good software.

it is kind of interesting when you think about it. what utility does something like paint actually have? did it ever have any real utility? (icon editing?) it always kinda felt like a demo that came with early versions of windows that didn't actually do anything useful.

Used to be you saved and shared screenshots by pasting into Paint and saving it. Printscreen didn't save a file and only some programs (Skype) let you paste the screenshot directly from the clipboard. That's how I remember it anyway.
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