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Where did all the public bathrooms go?

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Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#331

Post by jcranmer »

10000truths wrote: post #309
47635274172635 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whatever bad things you can say about China or Taiwan, they both think slavery is wrong and kings are childish. I remember China being pretty racist. A lot of people visiting got a clear message. Not aggressively but quite clear. >The west were slavers. Who sold them the slaves? Did Europeans go hunt for slaves or did they buy them? Who did they buy them from? Also answer this, if Americans wouldn't have bought the…

> Also answer this, if Americans wouldn't have bought the African slaves, all those African-Americans that are now enjoying life in the land of the free, where would they have been born today? Think if they could push a button today to wipe slavery from the past, but that meant they get to spawn back in Africa, they would push it or not? Legitimate question. Because it's not like nothing good came out of it. The reas…

The Mali Empire peaked around 150 years before Christopher Columbus "discovers" the Americas, and it finally collapses in 1599, finished off by Morocco. The Transatlantic Slave Trade doesn't really kick into gear until the mid-17th centuries, after the Mali Empire is no longer around.

If you wanted a better example, you might have picked, say, Benin. That you use Mali as an example of an empire screwed by Europeans in Africa suggests to me a general poverty of knowledge about any pre-colonial African history.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#332

Post by jezzamon »

Avicebron wrote: post #193
moduspol wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another consequence of no longer living in a high-trust society.

What I want to know is if anyone can identify when exactly the homeless issue became so bad. It was already a problem when I lived in the Bay, and when I moved back to the East Coast it had been 10 years in the making (conveniently when I was away). Clearly there a some sharp lines that can be drawn somewhere. But it's hard to get some actual answers. Edit: rough clauding indicates it was when fentanyl took off, but…

FWIW you should clarify: do you mean mentally unstable people on streets, or do you mean any form of homelessness (living in cars, surfing on friends couch, etc). Because that second category is much larger and includes a lot of sincere people who are basically just priced out of the area that grew up in

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#333

Post by 9x39 »

ssl-3 wrote: post #103
xyzelement wrote: post #85

Lack of bathrooms has been called tragedy of the commons in this thread, but it's not the "commons" that are the problem. The worst 10% of society determine what we can and can't have. The "commons" aren't having public sex, shooting up drugs, or destroying the bathrooms with lack of... etiquette. The commons are victimized when these things happen and then there's eventually no choice but to shut them down unless th…

A reduction of public restrooms didn't stop the worst 10% of society from having public sex, shooting up drugs, or destroying an area with their lack of defacatory etiquette -- did it? In places where these things were problems with public restrooms, they remain problems without public restrooms. The 10%'ers are still doing their dastardly things. The remaining 90% of society still has the same messes to clean up (or…

Closing bigger public bathrooms and switching to individually lockable bathrooms - cells, basically, often with codes if at a business did work.

It filters out that bottom 10% that can't coherently speak or present themselves to pass a vibe check in asking for bathroom access.

Things did improve for those with standards, at the cost of having to deal with the bathroom equivalent of barbed wire topped walls around your home compound. That IS better than walking in on the bottom 10% or the disasters they create, but only slightly.

Collectively, squeezing the bottom out by denying them access building by building, block by block has helped turn parts of cities around. It's not that different than locking up your food high in the air when camping so animals don't get into it - they don't come around and stop coming around if they are.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#334

Post by foolinaround »

muwtyhg wrote: post #102
foolinaround wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the public bathroom should be redesigned so that one can do only the thing it is designed for - and maybe it needs to be a single-user design. Almost like an airline bathroom size - might be a bit claustrophobic but these are for emergencies and space saving would be big. the doors could be wired to sensors that are connected to a central network that shows in real-time the availability and also some alarms if someth…

How do you accommodate ADA requirements?

perfect is the enemy of the good...

how about some of them being ADA-conforming, with maps noting where they are?

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#335

Post by Someone1234 »

beebmam wrote: post #327
mstaoru wrote: post #94

This really hits home. As a person with IBS I basically cannot peacefully go outside in EU. I lived for many years in China and Thailand, and toilets are free, clean, and plentiful there, and you can easily ask any place to use their toilet - there's no stigma. I even had to run into a police station in rural China once. They were 100% chill about it, though they had to unlock a gate for me. Xi Jinping really will be…

This has very little to do with public amenities. It has everything to do with toleration of homelessness and drug use. I don't understand why the west tolerates it at all.

I'm genuinely concerned to ask what you're proposing?

Drug use is already unlawful, and the homeless are routinely criminalized for existing - so if that is "tolerate" then what proposals are you trying to promote?

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#336

Post by mister_mort »

nradov wrote: post #314
zmgsabst wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circa 2015 when the reformulation of meth made it more likely to induce psychosis — as the new flow chemistry version altered which isomers were made. At least, in Seattle.

What is the new formulation? How does it differ at a chemical level?

It's a theory that labs in Mexico switched back over to P2P 'biker' meth (instead of the old stuff based on cough/flu meds) and that the new meth is causing progressive brain damage to users.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new...

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#337

Post by alex43578 »

47635274172635 wrote: post #292
alex43578 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are committing crimes, they should be imprisoned for an appropriate period of time as a deterrent to crime, a punishment for their actions, and to facilitate rehabilitation (even though evidence shows this doesn't really happen). If they are mentally ill and unable to care for themselves or pose a threat to the community because of their mental illness, they should be institutionalized and treated. If they ar…

I think you need to fix the cause not treat the symptom. I mean you should treat the symptoms as well, while fixing the cause of the issue. Atm it seems everyone is trying to figure out how to treat the symptom, and they don't even know why, and they keep completely quiet about the cause of it all. Completely and utter mystery, or framed vague and unfixable enough that they do not have to really address it. What the…

Right now, many places in the US aren’t even “treating the symptoms”.

We can start there, then move to address the more structural, long-term problems that contribute to these issues.

An action that reduces drug use by 5% a decade from now is fine, but taking a criminal off the street today yields far greater present value.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#338

Post by mvdtnz »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #312
mvdtnz wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We in the west have surrendered with weak punishments and lax enforcement for anti social behaviour. In many cases even abolishing laws or putting in place public policy that prevents the imprisonment of people who commit "low level" crimes. There's a certain segment of the population who will (largely unsuccessfully) try to shame you if you promote a tough on crime approach. In my country the entire justice system h…

I'm just not sure that stronger punishment and enforcement is going to be the answer here. It seems like many of the Asian cultures have a much higher level of social cohesion even without the threat of punishment. How do we get (back) to higher social cohesion in the West? I recall seeing a film of a shanty town somewhere in the US during the Great Depression. It was very neat and tidy. What happened between then an…

Which Asian cultures are you speaking about which have high social cohesion without threat of punishment? Singapore will punish anti-social behaviour like vandalism with mandatory caning, or fine you heavily for jay walking. In Japan police will intervene much more readily in cases of public intoxication and even noise complaints.

For more serious anti social behaviour like gun crimes, violent crimes and drug trafficking there are very strong mandatory penalties up to and including corporal punishment and execution.

Conviction rates in these countries are upwards of 99%. So in cases of intervention a punishment is almost certain.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#339

Post by 9x39 »

deadbunny wrote: post #261
nxc18 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portland put out portable toilets during the pandemic. They had big signs on them about how toilet access was a human right, or something like that. One by one, they were all burned down. Homeless people seem to be really good at destroying stuff. My apartment building is taking on new low income tenants and the rate of fires - with sprinkler activation - is boggling. The public park I walk by often is losing a littl…

Seems like the problem is the utter lack of mental health support to me.

The utter lack of it? There's an entire industrial complex around homeless "support" to do magic tricks on money.

Portland's county allocates $9m annually. LA's county allocates $4b annually. Should it be 2x that? 20x? 200x before any positive change occurs?

"Mental health" is a non-answer designed to shift accountability and agency from individuals into everyone else vis a vis whatever system is expected to provide this vague "support", despite the failed track record of these systems to improve anything but their employees' and contractors' pockets.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#340

Post by mp2 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #164
ipdashc wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today, though, almost everyone carries either a contactless credit card or a phone with an NFC wallet. I would pay $0.25 for access to a clean public toilet if I could swipe one of those instead of having to carry change. This is one of those things that gets ruined by credit card transaction fees though, right? It is kinda depressing that after all these fintech companies and society's ~decade long scam-filled obs…

It gets ruined by the government choosing to not operate an electronic money transfer system as infrastructure similar to cash.

>operate an electronic money transfer system as infrastructure similar to cash.

if the government were smart they'd pass a law to do this, makes it much easier to get rid of cash

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