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Oceans hit highest temperature on record

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Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#291

Post by anonymars »

api wrote: post #231
thrance wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So markets are working. > Instead of politics and blame we need to focus on markets and let them take care of the problem. Blind faith in the markets is what got us in this mess. > Fossil fuel extraction is not the problem. The problem is fossil fuel usage. Yes, and usage is not decreasing. As solar is growing, it's only adding capacity, not replacing fossil fuels. 2025 was the record year for global emissions and…

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita Still a ways to go but trending down for some time now. India and China are trending up and might cross us by 2030-2035 unless they reverse direction.

> Americans very consistently show the most emissions per Capita.

Even beyond that, it is simply a false statement. Among the most, yes but consistently "the most", no

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita?t...

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#292

Post by kalenx »

YZF wrote: post #232
kalenx wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. Are you making the argument that extracting fossil fuel here is better than extracting it elsewhere? Or, perhaps more to the point, you do see that the issue is the use of fossil fuels and that extracting _more_ is just contributing to it? About the (unrelated) boycott question, I would invite you to consider the reasons motivating people to boycott Tesla. If think everyone do that to "hurt" or "p…

Yes. I am making the argument that if we extract a barrel of oil in Canada that is all in all better than in Russia or Saudi. We have more environmental standards and we put that money towards better things. Canada was able to give me a rebate on my EV purchase. Where do you think that money comes from? I drive a Tesla because at the time it was (and maybe still is) the best EV. I benefit from the network of supercha…

Fair enough. I'll expand.

> The political criticism in the US (and in Canada where I'm from) against fossil fuel extraction makes no sense.

If you _must_ extract fossil fuel, you can arguably say that it's better to do it somewhere with higher environmental standards (of course, here I'm disregarding people disdain to see wilderness areas they know and have an emotional attachment with transformed into oil fields). But what about _stop_ fossil fuel usage? Sure, it would cost a lot of money. So is AI currently, for doubtful returns. Sure, it would require people changing habits. So has the Internet, and we went through it.

It's like hearing an alcoholic telling you that sure, he still drinks 3 bottles a day but hey, it's Canada-made alcohol, "all in all better than alcohol coming from Russia", right? Yes, I guess it's better for the Canadian economy, but what about just stop drinking?

About your Tesla, deciding to buy without any political consideration is your choice, which you are entitled to. But why would it be impossible to understand someone actually considering the political/social side of things? All your acts and conscious decisions are strictly driven by objective, scientific criteria, never taking into account anything else?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#293

Post by thrance »

anonymars wrote: post #291
api wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita Still a ways to go but trending down for some time now. India and China are trending up and might cross us by 2030-2035 unless they reverse direction.

> Americans very consistently show the most emissions per Capita. Even beyond that, it is simply a false statement. Among the most, yes but consistently "the most", no https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita?t...

Ok ok, America is behind petrostates. I'll add that to my comment.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#294

Post by vkou »

noosphr wrote: post #209
vkou wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's funny that environmentalists would rather see the world burn than solve all emissions problems with nuclear. This criticism would hold more weight if environmentalists held a shred of power. They aren't the ones at the steering wheel.

They had enough power to close down all the nuclear power plants in Germany.

And despite that, this is what Germany achieved in the past 35 years.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/GHG%20em...

Over a 60% reduction in emissions from the electrical sector.

---

Compare that to the US, where environmentalists haven't been allowed anywhere near any influence in the federal government... And you'll very quickly see that they are just a convenient boogieman, and not the actual problem.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/inventory-us-greenhouse-gas...

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#295

Post by ColdStream »

lbriner wrote: post #2

When I was younger, I remember thinking, "a few degrees, what difference does that make?" Then when I grew older I realised that in Climate science a few degrees is the difference between survival and annihilation. A few degrees warmer in the ocean and El Niño becomes an incredible problem for half the world. I am glad that I live far away from the effects but it is sad to think of people losing all kinds of things f…

Someone I know who worked in the climate sciences once put it so clearly to me.

An increase of 1 degree is global, and with 70% of the world being ocean that raises much slower, the temperature rise over land is effectively doubled. So 1c degree is 2c. A 2c world is 4c.

That when CO2 was 100 point less than the 280ppm baseline we had an ice age with glaciers down to the 40th(ish) parallels in the Northern Hemisphere. We have now pushed it 150 above the baseline in effectively 150 years and fast accelerating. What seems like something trivial, is actually forcing on an unbelievable scale.

Also a fun visualization, roughly speaking 1 part per million in water vapor is what a cloud looks like. If CO2 had the same visual properties as water, it would be pitch black on the ground.

People keep looking to the past for answers, and yes it does provide valuable context. But what we are doing now has never happened on this planet, we are blindly rushing into a future that is beyond comprehension. Some things will go worse than expected, some thing will go a lot better, but nobody really knows just yet.

Also to the last line "I am glad that I live far away from the effects", alas, this isn't like empires of the past that are geographically limited. Those that can collapse but there is still plenty of untouched lands and civilizations. We now live in a global system, a six continent supply chain. We will all be impacted.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#296

Post by BLKNSLVR »

contingencies wrote: post #282
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the feeling the coming summer is going to be brutal. On one hand, heat + humidity will literally kill some vulnerable people. One the other hand, heat + extreme dryness will literally kill people via wildfires. Before summer comes around I need to clear various dry leaves and branches and general fire-fuel garden waste from around my house and yard. Somehow, my house doesn't have a water tank, and that makes me…

Where are you based now? Long time between drinks. I think 2600 is still running. Pop in at the next one? https://www.meetup.com/en-au/sydney-2600/events/316056334/

SA (still). Not sure if I am who you think I am...

Wermspowke?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#297

Post by ColdStream »

Windchaser wrote: post #102
yodsanklai wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A few degrees warmer in the ocean and El Niño becomes an incredible problem for half the world. Ice age was only 6 degrees less than now, half of Europe was under ice

And when the Earth was 3C cooler, NYC was nearly under an ice sheet. The current estimate is that we're heading for +3C warmer, which is gonna have some big impacts.

Not only are we heading there it might be a lot quicker than we anticipate. The warming is accelerating quickly as the CO2 is cumulative and the feed back loops get more intense.

The last decade has seen a 0.48c increase in temperature and due to the decade base line shifting every year and it is increasing in pace.

https://www.intelligentliving.co/global-warming-acceleration...

The more realistic climate scientists think we will blow past 2c by roughly 2035. We are on track to 3c by 2050 and emissions growth has yet to stop despite all the additional renewables being built. This is why many have said next year with the flow on effects of El Nino that we will be getting a preview of 2035.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#298

Post by ColdStream »

triska wrote: post #24
lbriner wrote: post #2

When I was younger, I remember thinking, "a few degrees, what difference does that make?" Then when I grew older I realised that in Climate science a few degrees is the difference between survival and annihilation. A few degrees warmer in the ocean and El Niño becomes an incredible problem for half the world. I am glad that I live far away from the effects but it is sad to think of people losing all kinds of things f…

> "a few degrees, what difference does that make?" Maybe this helps: Think about when we have a fever of "a few degrees", say, instead of 37 degree Celsius, we have 40. It shows that also a few degrees can make a huge difference.

I said this elsewhere. Land temperature raises quicker than oceans. So a 2c increase globally is actually a 4c over land. If we hit 3c, that will be 6c over land.

So with a fever, 37c jumped up to 43c goes from normal and stable to a very quick death.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#299

Post by the_sleaze_ »

infinitezest wrote: post #183
Zambyte wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. People fuss over LLM energy consumption, but I did the math on my rig, and if I were to use my machine at full tilt for all of my waking hours, I would use roughly 1/10th the amount of energy the average American uses driving. By the way, I highly recommend the Priority 600 :-)

I think OP is talking about datacenters which likely use a little more power than your home rig.

Extrapolate

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#300

Post by estearum »

consumer451 wrote: post #288
pfisch wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The eu is stupid for not engaging in active climate engineering right now. They are the most at risk and should take decisive action before they end up living in a glacier. All the downvotes are just showing why no action is being taken even though right now we are literally terraforming the planet with no plan, and it is going to stop the transatlantic currents that keep Europe from becoming arctic. But sure, just d…

I agree with you. We are actually at huge risk. "Western Civilization" rose out of our stable European climate and that is over now. However, we need a global consensus for geoengineering. That's just how that works... the Jet Stream. Meanwhile one country believes that global warming is a benefit, aka Russia. They currently appear to have control of the West.. so what in the actual f? For a far more dire diatribe: h…

Global consensus would be great, but "reliable mechanism" would be a decent start.

In lieu of that, there's nothing to build consensus around.

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