Correlation does not imply causation and it's not even clear this qualifies as correlation.
what about it is not correlation, that you imply?
Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation
31–40 of 195 posts
Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation
#32[dead]
Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation
#33I found the article very interesting. Not click bait at all. I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body.
It's like 9 brains, one central one in the head and 8 semi-autonomous ones in the arms. Makes one wonder what an octopus consciousness is like. Is it distributed among the nine brains, or focused on the central one? If the latter then the arm-brains would be zombie minds. It's also possible the 8 arms have their own separate experiences. We also have a nervous system distributed throughout our bodies, so we do experi…
While the specifics of octopus experience are hard for us to fathom, we do say our stomachs have a mind of their own, and science has backed that up mostly. The enteric nervous system is complex and large and intimately in touch with gut microbes (of which there are trillions), and is connected to the brain. Both speak to each other, but the gut does a lot of independent stuff, and we’re learning a lot of the chemicals the gut microbiome releases shapes our moods and behavior.
For an octopus, it must be something similar but with all 8 of their appendages. Some specialize for hunting vs moving, so that’s at least easy to understand, but given they can act independently, I wonder if the octopus feels like the conflict between gut and brain with respect to food.
Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.
I find it interesting how people justify (or not) whether to eat another animal.
you mean you don't think it's right to make a creature take an IQ test before deciding to eat them or not? "Yes, right, well, you seem sufficiently stupid enough to ingest."
Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it interesting how people justify (or not) whether to eat another animal.
you mean you don't think it's right to make a creature take an IQ test before deciding to eat them or not? "Yes, right, well, you seem sufficiently stupid enough to ingest."
There are hazards to doing it on an individual level, but on a species level sure why not? Between a talking plant and a brainless bovine I know which one I'd say is the obvious right answer to eat (assume both species occurred naturally for this thought experiment).
Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
This isn’t quite true, is it? A mutation that killed 5 years after childbirth would result in higher mortality rates for the child.
Octopus have extremely high mortality rates and extremely large litters, so there’s that They don’t raise their offspring
Though FWIW, they do protect their eggs quite well.
Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.
My wife stopped eating octopus after seeing the giant Pacific octopus in the Monterey aquarium. The way it stares at you hints at a real intelligence. Maybe the smaller species aren't that smart, but why take the chance?
I'm pretty convinced we could discuss philosophy with octopus friends if they didn't all die immediately after reproducing.
Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is only one species of octopus that lives socially (LPSO are rare and incredibly intelligent but their lifespans are like 3 years) Maybe your headcannon should be that apes did a "tower of babel" type thing to make all the octopus individualistic and unable to organize into a civilization
It's more complex than that. The famed octopus city[1] was populated by the gloomy octopus, a species which prior to the discover was believed to have been exclusively solitary. [1] - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/octopus-city-obser...
Well the LPSO is the only consistently social octopus. "Octopus city" was actually 2 cities (the second one being discovered in 2016) and they were groups of about 15 gloomy octopuses. There are a couple of other examples of octopus sociality but on a species-wide level only the LPSO can be comfortably described as social
Almost all octopuses are cannibalistic but Abdopus have also been found living close to and tolerating each other
Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Octopus have extremely high mortality rates and extremely large litters, so there’s that They don’t raise their offspring
Though FWIW, they do protect their eggs quite well.
Isn't this tied to the senesce? Where their digestive tract has closed and they starve to death at the nest
Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation
#40Pure, shameless clickbait as usual from Smithsonian magazine. > Although there is no direct evidence that the adaptation is linked to expanded octopus brainpower, I.e. the entire connection between this mutation and octopus intelligence is made up. Not even a shred of justification.
I mean it's a gene that helps them build a protein. It would be nearly impossible to say there's a "direct" link to that and intelligence. I think they are validly qualifying the article
A lot of science journalism has, for better or worse, a mandate to increase public interest and excitement about science. If you want a dry and totally accurate account of the science you should read the paper directly. If you want your curiosity and imagination excited, articles and programs like these are great.
Here's their proposed link later in the article:
> The findings hint that the rRNA adaptation might be connected to the evolution of the shallow-water octopuses’ large nervous systems. Their brains—which are spread throughout their bodies—had to expand quickly as they learned to keep up with predators and increased competition in this environment. Nerve cells, or neurons, are long-lived, study co-author Rishav Mitra tells Scientific American’s Cody Cottier, which means protein misfolding is particularly bad for them. By preventing that, the rRNA break “might help these neurons to work well,” he adds.
A conjecture like this probably has no place in a scientific article but absolutely has a place in pop sci magazines like Smithsonian