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Where did all the public bathrooms go?

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Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#211

Post by bluGill »

jerlam wrote: post #99
ssl-3 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It was never my intent to suggest that they would be doing so. So move up the management ladder, if you will, until a party that is responsible for making this kind of decision is reached. That's the class of party of which I was speaking, and where I suggested that irrational decisions are being made. Someone -- at some point -- did make a decision to eliminate outdoor trash cans at these establishments. The…

I'm not sure that anyone in the management ladder is affected. People don't generally choose a fast food restaurant or convenience store based on the cleanliness of their parking lots, so sales isn't going to be affected. Nor is staff, already cut to minimal levels, going to be given additional hours to keep the parking lots clean. There even might be a disincentive to have garbage cans if they can't be maintained. P…

People do chose fast food by the neighborhood. When I was at McDonald's - 30 years ago so this may have changed - corporate policy was you would clean your parking lot and everyone for one block. We were encouraged to paint any abandoned building in the one block range at our expense just to ensure the area looked nice.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#212

Post by jiscariot »

xyzelement wrote: post #85

Lack of bathrooms has been called tragedy of the commons in this thread, but it's not the "commons" that are the problem. The worst 10% of society determine what we can and can't have. The "commons" aren't having public sex, shooting up drugs, or destroying the bathrooms with lack of... etiquette. The commons are victimized when these things happen and then there's eventually no choice but to shut them down unless th…

And people with means, move from common to private spaces. Others will not have the same choice and things become more stratified, because a subset of society decided to cede public spaces.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#213

Post by liveoneggs »

Avicebron wrote: post #193
moduspol wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another consequence of no longer living in a high-trust society.

What I want to know is if anyone can identify when exactly the homeless issue became so bad. It was already a problem when I lived in the Bay, and when I moved back to the East Coast it had been 10 years in the making (conveniently when I was away). Clearly there a some sharp lines that can be drawn somewhere. But it's hard to get some actual answers. Edit: rough clauding indicates it was when fentanyl took off, but…

California is a garden of eden, a paradise to live in or see.. but believe it or not you won't find it so hot if you ain't got that do(ough)-re-mi.

https://woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/Do_Re_Mi.htm

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#214

Post by yorwba »

moduspol wrote: post #183
talon8635 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if you don’t have a massive population of antisocial people who destroy the public facility, you can provide them. It’s a shame we in the west surrendered that. Not the worst thing in the world, but I do find it frustrating often to not have a bathroom available nearby (small bladder) But, while the toilets aren’t the worst sacrifice, the cumulative sacrifices made on the alter of our huge antisocial populati…

Yet another consequence of no longer living in a high-trust society.

In China, it has more to do with putting drug users into labor camps: https://madeinchinajournal.com/2019/10/25/punish-and-cure-fo...

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#215

Post by adolph »

urbnspacecowboy wrote: post #114
cube00 wrote: post #17

Strange "For the Classroom" question. Men seeking same-sex encounters transformed the pissoir into something its planners never intended. Who ultimately determines the meaning of a public space: its designers, authorities, or the people who use it? The law determines that public space can't be used for any sexual activity. I'm not sure what constructive classroom discussion you can have when the example is based on t…

> The law determines that public space can't be used for any sexual activity. Follow-up question: Does an enclosed stall count as "public space"?

the pissoir . . . the greatest concession most of them made to privacy was a little iron screen separating the user from the street.

Look at the photos in the article, they weren't enclosed stalls. Its elegant in a way, just a couple feet of opaque material that wraps the beltline of a central aiming point. Basically as good as going on a tree but without people getting uptight.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#216

Post by bluGill »

aeternum wrote: post #118
ButlerianJihad wrote: post #107

One of the first lessons I learned as a homeless person is that restroom access is one of the most vital things for survival and staying out of jail. I am not sure of the real-world risk, but to hear Internet commenters, if you are a man and you urinate in public, you may be on a fast path to being a registered sex-offender for no other reason. That is an obviously sad consequence that no homeless guy wants to be bur…

IMO each city should have space dedicated for homeless camping with 24h running water and easy to clean stainless steel bathroom facilities. Do any cities do this, especially cities where weather is mild? Would homeless actually use it in favor of streets if available? Also why didn't you use shelter facilities, were they too crowded, unsafe, or had onerous rules?

city where I live does have that. And there are also homeless shelters that you're allowed to use for three months of the year. And the homeless spend every November/December trying to figure out when are you going to check into that homeless shelter for your three months so you can be off the streets when it is deathly cold outside.

Most of the homeless have significant issues and are not going to get off the street. In better cases a messy divorce is at fault and they could hold a job but they refuse because it would not help their life.

There's also one rich person in my city who chooses to live in a tent year round. When you have a ton of money, being homeless is actually freedom because you can afford a nice warm sleeping bag and a nice tent. It makes a huge difference. This is one person out of, I don't know how many, but hundreds at least. Mostly I bring this man up because it messes up everyone's expectation of how you should deal with the homeless.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#217

Post by x0x0 »

ssl-3 wrote: post #103
xyzelement wrote: post #85

Lack of bathrooms has been called tragedy of the commons in this thread, but it's not the "commons" that are the problem. The worst 10% of society determine what we can and can't have. The "commons" aren't having public sex, shooting up drugs, or destroying the bathrooms with lack of... etiquette. The commons are victimized when these things happen and then there's eventually no choice but to shut them down unless th…

A reduction of public restrooms didn't stop the worst 10% of society from having public sex, shooting up drugs, or destroying an area with their lack of defacatory etiquette -- did it? In places where these things were problems with public restrooms, they remain problems without public restrooms. The 10%'ers are still doing their dastardly things. The remaining 90% of society still has the same messes to clean up (or…

A friend owns pizza restaurants. They leapt at the opportunity during covid to shut their bathrooms to the public, and have continued to (illegally) keep the bathrooms closed as much as possible.

People made horrific messes in them. Employees and/or owners had to clean them. They don't wish to do so. Public messes; private employees and/or owners being made to clean them is pretty much the story.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#218

Post by baud147258 »

psadauskas wrote: post #157

We'll spend a trillion dollars bombing people halfway around the world that never meant us any harm, but paying a custodian to clean a public toilet (and providing help for those that might misuse it) is a bridge too far.

> We'll spend a trillion dollars bombing people halfway around the world that never meant us any harm

While I'm sure the US has bombed a significant number of such people, I wouldn't call Iran as 'never meant us any harm' (though I'll still say the current war is a stupid mistake).

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#219

Post by yodelleehoo »

talon8635 wrote: post #115
mstaoru wrote: post #94

This really hits home. As a person with IBS I basically cannot peacefully go outside in EU. I lived for many years in China and Thailand, and toilets are free, clean, and plentiful there, and you can easily ask any place to use their toilet - there's no stigma. I even had to run into a police station in rural China once. They were 100% chill about it, though they had to unlock a gate for me. Xi Jinping really will be…

I guess if you don’t have a massive population of antisocial people who destroy the public facility, you can provide them. It’s a shame we in the west surrendered that. Not the worst thing in the world, but I do find it frustrating often to not have a bathroom available nearby (small bladder) But, while the toilets aren’t the worst sacrifice, the cumulative sacrifices made on the alter of our huge antisocial populati…

I was picking up some lumber today (USA) and they were blaring some country song about "Try that in a small town" which was basically a gun owner's fantasy about shooting people. One of the lines was something like "we look out for our own". And that right there describes half the USA: outsiders not welcomed. ingroup/outgroup is nothing new, and its not like any country has really fixed it, and the countries that have seemed to "figure it out" are wildly racist (Nordic countries, Japan, etc.) or authoritarian (China), but that's that underlying attitude: it an outsider's fault. And even IF you are "one of their own" and you fall off the wagon, you find yourself with a bus ticket to a Blue State sanctuary city courtesy of your local Red Leaders.

I live in a city that is a dumping ground where Red States have bussed the homeless populations -- out of sight out of mind -- and even before this, homelessness was a growing due to skyrocketing rents, medical costs, and simply falling behind the treadmill. And now gave crazy new drugs, crazy new inflation, and even more unchecked greed, there's really no stopping this so called "antisocial" behavior.

Why care about a society when it doesn't give a fuck about you>?

Then again, when I was in college in the mid-80s, Freshman year a bunch of young white engineering boys in my dorm were laughing about how they smeared shit all over the bathroom walls of a McDonalds. So, it's been going on forever, but now the scale is massive. I include "white" because a lot of people think this is a non-white, non-rich, non-christian problem.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#220

Post by baud147258 »

seszett wrote: post #59
kazinator wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That practically ensures that some people who have to go really badly, and for whom €0.50 is a big deal, will just drop their business on the sidewalk.

The only place in France I have seen this happen was Paris and public toilets are free there. I haven't seen paid toilets at all in France for a long time, actually. Maybe in train stations though.

I've seen paid toilets in train stations (last month in le Mans, a few years ago in a corner of Montparnasse station, though that was before the last round of renovation) and in a mall (CNIT in la Defense). Some RATP train stations have public toilets that you can access with your train ticket, so it's not quite free.
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