How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs • Hacker News Board

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#621

Post by trinix912 » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:30 PM UTC

dgellow wrote: post #536

trinix912 wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s unlikely because smaller member states wouldn’t want that as they’d be outvoted by bigger members and thus forced to implement laws that might not even make sense in those (smaller) countries.

It’s unlikely for a lot of reasons, but that’s not one of them given we don’t know what a federalized EU would look like.

We had a federation around here called Yugoslavia and we saw how it played out. Forcing different nations to agree on everything down to things that are basically cultural preferences never worked well. Regulations, bureaucracy and laws are often based on cultural preferences. The EU tries to find a common baseline but still leaves a lot to each member state to avoid this problem.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#622

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:30 PM UTC

veeti wrote: post #612

anigbrowl wrote: post #600

Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1... None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the disc…

Simply not true. The helpful diagram you refer to does not consider the case where company A manufactures the packaging, company B buys the packaging, and then does a B2C delivery to another member state. In that case company B is the producer, even if B is a "micro-enterprise". > the discussion here seems to have a lot of people who are in a big rush to demonize their perceived political opponents on ideological gro…

[deleted]

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#623

Post by zuzululu » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:30 PM UTC

Kudos wrote: post #447

zuzululu wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there was already a steady complaints against Anti-EU regulation from within Europe around the time Eurozone debt crisis introduced sweeping changes that ultimately centralized regulatory enforcement over sovereign interests of EU member states. I think anybody from Europe would know this is the focal point when anti-EU sentiments really ticked up. There really isn't much of astro-turfing in non-EU parts of the w…

> your narrative might make more sense if there were any actual evidence or credibility behind the claims that non-EU states are engaged in anti-EU discourse The uptick I'm talking about is in the last 2 years. At least one Israeli Minister has bragged about them doing it. I don't think you need specific evidence of Russia doing it, it's widely believed to be happening by security professionals. They famously had tro…

Again the trope Russia did it is as ridiculous as Trump claiming China rigged US elections. There's simply no real hard evidence that can be examined without partisan bias.

I don't doubt the existence of troll farms either its just that the idea that you can influence online discourse in the manner claimed by both Democrats and Republicans and beyond in a left vs right rivalry is greatly exaggerated and carry their biases.

At the end of the day, you really can't change whatever beliefs that the crowd has had for ages. You can't astroturf Palestinians into changing their view against Israelis and you can't astroturf Israelis into changing their position towards Palestinians.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#624

Post by trinix912 » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:31 PM UTC

throw-the-towel wrote: post #540

trinix912 wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s unlikely because smaller member states wouldn’t want that as they’d be outvoted by bigger members and thus forced to implement laws that might not even make sense in those (smaller) countries.

That's why federations have a Senate where all states get equal representation.

Then the bigger member states will say that they’re contributing so much more but get very little voting power etc. It’s not an easy problem to solve, hence the current indirect system.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#625

Post by veeti » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:42 PM UTC

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #620

deepsun wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the decline button is covered Well, covering the decline button is very illegal according to EU cookies laws.

Exactly, that's why I think it's hilarious that the EU itself is doing it. Clearly it's just incompetence not malice, but...

Complaints may be sent to the European Data Protection Supervisor. Give a GDPR consultant some billable hours, will you?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#626

Post by ionwake » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:45 PM UTC

shimman wrote: post #605

ionwake wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are insulting me which is an odd way to have a discussion on this forum, and no I disagree with you. Stop being lazy and do your own research. To help you along I gave some more info above. Thanks for the bump.

Imagine thinking asking someone for sources as "insulting."

No this comment is insulting as its calling me a child "You're trying to argue how school children argue, aim a little higher if you want to convince people that know how to read."

imagine if you will.... the trolling you are serving

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#627

Post by imnotr0b0t » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:45 PM UTC

[dead]

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#628

Post by Saline9515 » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:49 PM UTC

akie wrote: post #294

formerly_proven wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's yet another EU regulation that requires a rep for each EU country or you're not allowed to do business. EU single market is a bad joke at this point.

[flagged]

The EU laws apply to every State in the same way and do not have to be rewritten to be transposed, especially for ex-nihilo new taxes like this one.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#629

Post by ajnin » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:52 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #600

Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1... None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the disc…

The exact scenario from TFA is listed just before the diagram you're referencing :

"If a farmer packs a few apples in a container (sales packaging) and sells it under its own name or trademark to a retailer or consumer in the same Member State, the farmer is a producer [for the purpose of EPR obligations]"

And :

"If the farmer sells the packed apples under its own name or trademark in another Member State, the farmer is only the producer if the recipient is the end user of the apples."

And :

"If the farmer is a micro-enterprise, which is often the case, and the supplier of the apple container is established in the same Member State, such supplier becomes the producer"

That last exemption is quite restrictive, it can be a problem. I can attest that a French manufacturer of antistatic packaging refused to sell to me as a micro enterprise when I was selling electronics kits a long time ago and I had to buy them from China. Some states might not even have packaging manufacturers. So the concerns from the article are founded.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#630

Post by Huppie » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:56 PM UTC

ajnin wrote: post #629

anigbrowl wrote: post #600

Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1... None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the disc…

The exact scenario from TFA is listed just before the diagram you're referencing : "If a farmer packs a few apples in a container (sales packaging) and sells it under its own name or trademark to a retailer or consumer in the same Member State, the farmer is a producer [for the purpose of EPR obligations]" And : "If the farmer sells the packed apples under its own name or trademark in another Member State, the farmer…

Under definitions (page 9) there's a big section

> 6) Who is the ‘manufacturer’ of branded packaging? NEW!

And it starts off this blurb:

> According to the PPWR (Article 3(1), point (12)), if a packaging does not bear a name or trademark, the manufacturer will be the natural or legal person who manufactures packaging or packaged products.

Seems pretty obvious to me the generic bubble envelope example from the blogpost doesn't make sense because that is generic packaging where the manufacturer has to handle this.

Edit: The farmer example is a bit bad imho because produce is not like the products in the blogpost and 'under its own trademark' applies to the product packaging (e.g. custom Apple carton frames etc.), best to focus on the more applicable sections imho.