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Anger, Anxiety and Agency

lucumr.pocoo.org

71–80 of 143 posts

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#71
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was taught that anger isn't an emotion. Yes, this is a school of thought I've seen in a few communication circles. It's not entirely accurate, but it's a useful exercise. They teach that anger is really a derived emotion, and is a result of a fundamental emotion, coupled with a narrative in your mind. The fundamental emotion is the real one, and the narrative in your mind maybe inaccurate. As a result, when you'r…

> Never work for a manager whose first question when something goes wrong is "Who owns this?" It's OK to get there eventually, but not the first impulse. I worked for a company that this was never asked, because we already knew. Every task/bug/feature had an "owner," before any work was done on it. We had this insane JIRA ticket workflow that was designed to force someone to be in charge of every item. You couldn't j…

> You couldn't just put something down, and walk away.

This seems like a pretty big problem. A lot of tasks should be put down. And, on the flip side, you absolutely need room for people to do things without needing to publicly justify themselves ahead of time.

I've been in places that try to approximate this sort of tracking, and I never felt like they were free of blame, I felt like blame was the default. There's no need to play the "blame game" if the whole system makes people feel blamed automatically!

That said, I've found a variant of this works: give people ownership of general areas, with well-defined but permeable boundaries. You only need to track the details at the interaction points, and only a subset of the work has to happen at those points. This also gives you a lot more room for overlap between people and teams; an interaction point naturally has at least two "owners" and, in a pinch, either side can come up with a (possibly sub-optimal) solution on their own. Or people can shuffle interaction points around—stop depending on one thing, move to some alternative—to work around problems.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#72
> I’m afraid we’re completely ignoring the impact this has on society at large, the climate, and the balance of the world as a whole.

Who's we? The impact this has on society at large is such an enormous, pervasive topic in my life - headlines in city newspapers, conversation at the dinner table - that I feel like you'd have to be living in a bunker to think nobody is engaging with it. This guy comes across as entirely disconnected from the world, but somehow thinks he knows how people who actually live in it should feel.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#73
post #65
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLM speak is of "higher" "quality" to a superficial inspection because it uses big words in a grammatically correct way. It is worse because it fails to communicate information well. When I say it can barely speak English, I mean that it produces sentences which are incomprehensible on the first few reads. I have never found the median literate native speaker to be so difficult to understand, partly because they use…

I don't think the claim will bear out that LLM-generated text fares more poorly on comprehensibility tests than those of the median literate speaker. I understand the aesthetic arguments against it, and largely agree, but the technical argument you're making here is almost certainly and starkly false. Most people write quite badly!

I would describe PIAAC literacy levels 1 and 2 as barely able to comprehend English, and someone who wrote at a corresponding level as barely able to write. They're close to the line of illiteracy, particularly PIAAC 1.

I believe the median person who comprehends English to PIAAC level 3 literacy or above, and writes accordingly, would be more comprehensible than an LLM, if we controlled for correctness and for their own understanding of the subject matter.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#74

There's something that really rubs me the wrong way when people use the language of healthy emotional regulation to spread unearned and unjustified placation. It reminds me of (for the pedants out there, I'm not saying it's equivalent to) the consume product meme. "Don't ask questions, just complete assignment and then get excited for next industry trend." >I don’t know what the future of this industry will look like…

> Sounds pleasant and vaguely inspirational. Then you read it again and notice guy thinks I don't always have the RIGHT to DECIDE to RESIST.

Author here: maybe I wasn't too clear about this, but I have seen people direct their anger about about what AI does to their jobs at people who themselves are not in a situation to do anything about it (eg: line managers or leaderships in businesses who are trying to roll out AI based coding tools).

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#75
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never work for a manager whose first question when something goes wrong is "Who owns this?" It's OK to get there eventually, but not the first impulse. I worked for a company that this was never asked, because we already knew. Every task/bug/feature had an "owner," before any work was done on it. We had this insane JIRA ticket workflow that was designed to force someone to be in charge of every item. You couldn't j…

I'm fascinated to hear that this worked. I worked at one place where that was the goal: Everything had an owner. It was terrible (and from what I hear, still is). I'd have a job which required some expertise. John nearby had his job with his expertise (different from mine). John is overloaded[1], and can't own everything related to his expertise. So they take things off his plate and distribute it to other people - i…

It was a Japanese company. Personal Accountability and Responsibility are a big deal, over there.

Also, the team is always more important than the individual. That's a concept that doesn't work particularly well, on this side of the Pacific, but it worked for them.

There were many things about working there, that I think would drive folks here, nuts, but they consistently released some of the finest gear in the world.

Software...not so much. I really tried to get them to change the way they approached software development, but never really had much success.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#76
post #49
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s absolutely nothing existential about a program that guesses the next word based on the last.

Truly such a first-order Markov chain would not be a threat but it turns out that they have built a program that guesses the next word based on the last few hundred thousand and it turns out that it works pretty well for writing software.

Keep diving down the chain brother, I’m sure you’ll find the singularity down there somewhere.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#77
I’m not the arbiter of emotions but being angry is valid and it doesn’t have to be directed. It’s not necessarily a vector. If I worked very hard to transplant a tree, and at no fault of anyone, it dies in the process, I can be angry I invested my time, money and energy into the failed effort. No one has the right to say that’s the wrong emotion to feel.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#78
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it doesn't come naturally for others and is therefore a bit of a struggle to shift into, but I love being unsure. It's great. It's a thing that's totally okay to be . The reality of life is that we're all unsure about a great deal, and it's quite a nice feeling to acknowledge uncertainty, sit within it and feel okay.

It is flat out not a nice feeling to experience uncertainty about things like "can I pay for someone to look after my child so I can go to work?" and "will I have food to eat this weekend?". For some people, "will AI mean my job goes away next year?" leads directly to those concrete uncertainties, and they understand that, and that is why they don't enjoy the uncertainty they are currently feeling. I'm guessing that…

Sure! Uncertainty is a spectrum, and there are certainly moments where it's not a nice feeling. I'm a father, and I'd be lying if I said I haven't had those feelings over the years. My (making it very clear here that one's mileage will obviously vary) approach?

I don't know what's going to happen. Maybe I'll need to figure out childcare, maybe I won't. Maybe I'll have food to eat this weekend, maybe I won't. Maybe my job will go away next year, maybe it won't. Today, there's work, and I'll do that work as best I can. Today, there's evidence things are changing, and I can be aware of that. Today, I can do something prudent to make myself more resilient towards whatever may or may not happen. Tomorrow, if something happens, I can react accordingly.

The mind wants certainty, but that's not always available, so I observe the "wanting". The best I can do is act based on what's in front of me, and sitting in the negative emotions around existential thoughts doesn't help me, nor my family (it's natural to have them, but I acknowledge them and let them pass by). The best I can do is to do. If things change, I change. Everything in nature/life is ephemeral, and I have done my best throughout my life to set myself up to be as adaptable as possible.

Edit: To reduce this and get a bit Tao-ish, you don't need to know the exact shape of the river downstream as long as you're capable of steering when you get there.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#79
> Sean Goedecke wrote a post arguing that you should never be angry at work — a post with which I strongly agree. Anger can be a useful signal, but being angry at work rarely improves the situation. More often, it makes life worse for the people around you, many of whom have no more power over the source of your anger than you do. I did learn that lesson, but it did not come naturally. One thing in particular that I learned is that in a company there is a shared vision, and if you don’t agree with it and are not in a position to change it, you should not start a mutiny, not even a small-scale one. Nothing good comes from that.

Say your company is acquired. The acquiring company promises how much better the world will be, how many resources they'll give you, etc. etc. Your companies get merged, hiring is basically all but shut off, management never lets another product release occur, and the entire acquisition is strangled until the day that the employees — but of course not the management responsible for this — is laid off.

I'm supposed to not be angry, while my co-worker sits there sobbing because her entire life is now in turmoil?

I sort of want to agree, in that, yes, it is generally fruitless to argue with corporations. In the above case, I'm laid off, no amount of screaming or tears is going to change it. But seeing people get away with such levels of incompetence — if not anger, what emotion should I be feeling? There's certainly some anxiety, but that's separate: I'm anxious about my coming lack of income, and needing to find new employ, sure, but that's what I feel towards my own impending future. But towards the management? I certainly don't feel agency: absolutely nothing I could have said or done would have changed things. The anger stems from the injustice of having to suffer the consequences for someone else's mistakes.

It's a borderline "how's the boot taste" attitude, in that we should never be angry, and just accept whatever bilge comes down from on high.

With regards to the AI stuff, we're watching the world (rightly) revolt against being told that glorified RNGs should dictate the outcomes of their lives in various imperceptible ways. And that leaves me feeling that, it wouldn't matter if we were building a "traditional", small-scale datacenter — the AI enthusiasts are going to so poison the well that we can forget about building anything ever anywhere ever again. All the while, the product being hawked is simply a garbage out generator, and I think the layperson gets that.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#80
post #18

The record scratch for me here was the idea that people can choose to be unsure instead of angry. People hate being unsure. Neurochemistry prefers anger to uncertainty. People get angry about being unsure. We feel anger in large part as our brain's natural salve for the discomfort of uncertainty. The suggestion he's making sort of defines away human nature. (There's a lot of practical benefit to be gained from unders…

>People hate being unsure.

I disagree with this and the same patronizing attitude of the article. We live in an age where being anxious, unsure and neurotic isn't just tolerated but encouraged. The reason is pretty obvious, anxious people are paralyzed, self-critical and as a consequence harmless. Hence Alfred Adlers profound insight, we don't suffer from anxiety, we produce it because it's a safeguarding mechanism against conflict, it's an excuse for not acting. That's why it's everywhere today.

The author is right that anger is directed at someone, and in this AI shitshow where developers have technology shoved unto them some righteous old testament anger at the people responsible would be a very productive thing indeed. In the words of Utah Phillips The Earth is not dying, it is being killed, and the people who are killing it have names and addresses.

Anxious people in the workplace tend to have no agency, they go to the pill doctor or ask themselves if they're at fault, angry people organize make their interests heard. It's pretty obvious why the tech 'luminaries' in charge prefer one over the other.

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