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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Fortunately, buses are not invisible and you can look for a bus before crossing a street to gauge and control your risk of being struck by one.

Schrodinger's Bus: You do not know if you will be hit until you are already in the street. I feel like there is some promise in naming a band this, but it is unfortunate it so often is what people have to deal with when bringing an item to market.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't followed the legislative process, where can I find that the eu wanted a single registry but the country pushed for national ones? Because i have never read it. I'm not saying it's not true, it's just that it's so hard to follow these things when one is supposed to have a life as well

There has been reporting on this in many places. Here is one: https://packaging-journal.de/en/eu-commission-wants-to-scrap... "According to the Händlerbund, the European Commission's proposal to abolish the requirement has been on the table since December 2025. However, discussions in the Council of the EU were suspended a few weeks ago after a majority of member states spoke out against it." "A restricted version is…

Ok ty

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a frustration and seeing things, that cant be unseen, speaking.. I don't know where model is, but what would be ideal: valuing own history, values, societies over not own, being strong outwardly and soft inwardly/on own people (not vice versa as is now), being practical and forward thinking over posing as a "leader in regulation" with suppressing everything meaningful hangover. There are tons of examples of strat…

What country in Europe are you referring to? Your objections seem to be quite broad and lack focus but seem to be alluding to the specific. Give me an example of what you mean? I think leadership is hard. I’m not sure I buy the idea that a group of countries should be “hard” on anyone.

Political decision to close modern nuclear powerplants without replacement - Germany. Experts made a petition to reopen them.

Migration - EU failed for many years to protect its border against illegal imigration - millions came, half a mil now legalized in Spain.

Overregulation - EU institutions themselves now acknowledge that regulatory and administrative burdens are hurting EU competitivenes

"Integration"/security - imigrants choose rich countries with good social benefits while in some areas inner security drops (car attacks, knife attacks, ra*es)

Greendeal-carbon pricing paid by industries to meet strict quotas, soon also paid by households, very expensive for europeans while having near zero effect on global emmisions in commparisson to China/rest of the world aka too much pain/costs for "nothing".

Digital regulation - via DSA, fight against so called "hate speech" and "disinformation"

Unrealized gains taxes - Netherlands

Exit taxes - France, Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Spain, Belgium (conditions vary in each coountry).

Demographical colapse - all EU countries have born rate below replacement level 2.1 (average 1.34 for EU in 2024)

Strategic dependency - Europe made itself super dependent on Russia for energy and from military POV on USA, both of these dependencies are now being painfully corrected

Digital ID/CBDC: EU is building digital ID and digital euro, tools with obvious future potential for surveillance and control.

Concerning being "hard" I meant mainly protecting our borders, being hard on enforcing them and our own laws equally on everybody, being strong independent just Europe in general

Obviously I am no expert in (geo)politics, just an average Joe observing concerning tendencies and not liking direction EU is heading.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#594
post #514
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long should we have to wait to hear objections to a rule before we can implement it?

Don’t wait for objections to an obviously dumb rule at all. Save us all the trouble and don’t implement it?

Who gets the veto over the democratic process? You?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason I'm not particularly pro EU is the following. How would we even sack the leadership?

Who is the leadership? The Council - then it would be national elections etc for the individual national representatives; the Commission - then it would be the European Parliament.

Requiring a 2/3 majority from the European Parliament seems a bit like a theoretical option more than anything. Even if it did (almost) happen once.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're replying to a comment that proposes a market-based solution. Shipping has externalities. Those externalities should be included in the cost of shipping. Then the market will make the right decision.

Every time I see somebody make an argument about "externalities" it's never actually backed up with any fact-based analysis about the magnitude of them. It's always exclusively vibes-based, "this thing you like is too cheap, it should be prohibitively expensive to make up for the thing I just thought of"

How do you expect people to discuss them across the scale of a whole economy without giant spreadsheets? Externalities are a well understood economic concept whose study goes back a century.

https://www.acton.org/node/6427

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#597
post #13

This is actively preventing me from sending packages to other countries as a maker. No matter how small the risk is, I don't want to risk a 5000 euro fine for sending a small amount of packages to other EU countries.

No matter how small the risk is

That's just an excuse then. Register with whatever local authority in your country handles these things and in the unlikely event you get a grumpy letter just send them a copy of your registration documents.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#598
post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's comforting to believe that actual voters have that kind of political influence over these things, but really it's about a million little talls, primarily driven by lobbyists commanded by big companies

You are about 20 years out of date. Modern politicians get almost all of their funding from small donations, in other words, from passionate partisans who care about culture war issues.

[deleted]

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#599
post #458
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having looked into FAQ[1] it seems that it's mostly the case if you sell in branded packaging and are >10 people or >2M eur revenue. [1] https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1...

According to the PPWR rules, if you (as a webshop) package your shipment in non-branded box and send it from another EU country to another, then you are considered to be manufacturer(=you were the first to bring this into market) and EPR/PPWR rules apply. There is no exemption for this.

I'm more inclined to believe the person who backed up their argument with a citation, especially after looking at the document they linked which expressly contradicts you.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#600
Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1...

None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the discussion here seems to have a lot of people who are in a big rush to demonize their perceived political opponents on ideological grounds.

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