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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#501

Post by nickff »

gwbas1c wrote: post #491

I would think that someone could make a business that sells "standard" packaging that's registered throughout the EU, and that a small business could use that packaging instead? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something?

Each company is required to register and report to each country. If you’re a 2MM EURO revenue company (not that big), and you want to sell one $5 item to Germany, you must be registered, hire a local representative, and file the most comprehensive type of reports.

Using standardized packaging might make the reporting a little easier (because the information is nicely organized), but doesn’t help with all the friction and added costs.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#502

Post by trinix912 »

nemomarx wrote: post #397
petra wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say I'm a German small business owner. Tomorrow Europe becomes a single market. How do I compete with a similar business but from a country where business costs are significantly lower ?

How does a Californian company compete with a company in Missouri that has lower labor costs and less overhead/ regulation? They seem to manage this just fine, but it's a pretty similar scenario. You could also push for standardized business costs and regulations eu wide ofc to help.

Standardized costs would just hurt the poorer members more. You’re underestimating the economical difference between EU member states. It’s more like if Californian businesses had to compete with Mexican in a single market, and Mexicans would be paying Californian prices with Mexican wages in the end.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#504

Post by gls2ro »

cloudie78 wrote: post #451
RandomLensman wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has such a system ever existed anywhere? How would citizens even have the time?

Switzerland

You cannot compare 10 million people with 450 million people when talking about direct democracy. It cannot be done I think. But if you know a way propose it here.

Just saying lets vote directly on everything will put everything on hold until all goes down.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#505

Post by iamniels »

PPWR is not the only one. Don't forget WEEE and the battery regulation. Only for VAT we have a single entrypoint, for all other regulations, businesses have to submit for each country. Its simply impossible.

On the other hand I estimate that between 50% and 200% of the taxes collected like this are wasted and not applied to their ultimate goals. The average collected amount per submission is so small that you cannot pay the bureaucrats managing the complex submissions from these sums.

An entrepreneur told me that they were being audited regarding the battery regulation. Two consultants came over from EY and audited all submissions in depth. They found out that the business overpaid by €10. The entrepreneur of course didn't mind and told them to keep the €10. The EY consultants told the entrepreneur to resubmit, otherwise the business would be fined. I think the government spent more on that audit by EY than the business will ever bring in on fees.

On top of this we have the regulations like Intrastat and in the future near-real-time submission of digital invoices to our tax authorities.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#506

Post by trinix912 »

petcat wrote: post #193
21asdffdsa12 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, europe has a culture of "stability" first. The fear of disruption and chaos is larger after two WW and it outsourced the risks of disruption to the US. Basically, use the us as a test-mouse for new ideas and innovations, then when proven safe introduce them and ride those coat-tails to infinity.

> use the us as a test-mouse for new ideas and innovations, then when proven safe introduce them and ride those coat-tails to infinity What actually happened, and continues to happen, is that Europe and the EU became entirely dependent on US tech and other foreign industry. It wasn't just a matter of "see what works and then copy it domestically". It oursourced basically everything.

To be fair, it was mostly outsourced to China, at least in Slovenia with our electronics development and manufacturing (Iskra and Gorenje). US stuff has also always been more expensive in every category except software.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#507

Post by rwyinuse »

danielovichdk wrote: post #450
fallingbananna wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could EU just ask DHL/Hermes/whatever to charge an additional €1 "for recycling"? Yes, but... Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China. And in Austria we will soon pay additional ~€2 for every delivered package. And 20% VAT. Edit: I am pretty sure at least some part of these already contribute towards recycling. The goal here is likely not just to get more funding for recycling, but rather to use materia…

It should be much higher. The amount of shit that gets shipped from China to Europe (world) is fucking ludicrous, and people should be taxed heavily for the stupid shit they often don't need.

Unfortunately, if you want to fix electronics more often than not China is the only place you can buy spare parts. I don't think buying spare parts to devices counts as "stupid shit".

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#508

Post by trinix912 »

dgellow wrote: post #143
Xelbair wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated I would argue it's even worse, because with properly designed federated system you get checks and balances to some extent. There are parts of EU that have almost zero oversight.

Yeah, this in between state is really frustrating. I hope we will see a push towards more federalization, but that’s unlikely

It’s unlikely because smaller member states wouldn’t want that as they’d be outvoted by bigger members and thus forced to implement laws that might not even make sense in those (smaller) countries.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#509

Post by snowpid »

This thread at worst is a negative example of HN. The blog post is reasonable and constructive, the petition is reasonable, the EU 's packaging law is bad executed on this part (other parts are good like forbidding PFAS on food packages, you cant imagine, this was aloud!) but whuge amout of people (or are these bots?) freak out up to stupid conspiracy theories that EU politics want to beg down small companies with packaging laws(or something). HN moderation totally failed and repeatedly fails on EU policy topics. Sometimes I think these are paid bots by some SV dude, sometimes I think it just frustrated Americans who cant handle that Trump is failing and they become aggressive that US is not the best country or something. But the moderation failure is very very consistent.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#510

Post by aleph_minus_one »

akie wrote: post #441
veeti wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't asking for a "single set of laws". "Single market" however is a pre-existing concept recognized as "one of the EU's greatest achievements" [1], and lacking regulations in providing said market is what their critique was about. [1] https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market_en

> "one of the EU's greatest achievements" And it is! People here are always complaining about the EU as if it's a single state, even though it's very clearly in the process of becoming one. It's a long road, we're not sure if we're going to make it all the way to the finish line (but I suspect we will), and we're going to have some happy little (and big) mistakes along the way. But for now it's imperfect, and it migh…

> People here are always complaining about the EU as if it's a single state, even though it's very clearly in the process of becoming one.

Rather: if you look at what the EU is doing, it is rather a huge advertisement that the EU should not become one.

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