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Where did all the public bathrooms go?

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Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#71

Post by ssl-3 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #55
strbean wrote: post #20

I was in France recently and used a public restroom. It had an attendant, and a fee of €0.50. Charging for the restroom is unfortunate, but this setup is certainly better than eliminating public restrooms entirely.

The 50 cents is dual purpose, the one is obvious in that it pays for the attendant and them keeping it clean, but the other is like using a coin to unlock a trolley, it cuts back misuse by a lot. Once you've been to free vs 50 cent toilets a few times you'll see (and smell) the difference.

The trolley analogy doesn't really hold up in this context, does it?

The incentive to do the right thing that a coin-deposit shopping cart ("trolley") adds is the ultimate return of that coin. It's not much money, but it is nonetheless returned when the cart is put back where it belongs.

If a cart always costs 50 cents and there is no hope of ever getting that money back, then: The monetary incentive to return the cart doesn't exist.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#72

Post by kazinator »

seszett wrote: post #59
kazinator wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That practically ensures that some people who have to go really badly, and for whom €0.50 is a big deal, will just drop their business on the sidewalk.

The only place in France I have seen this happen was Paris and public toilets are free there. I haven't seen paid toilets at all in France for a long time, actually. Maybe in train stations though.

Yes; the inverse is not true; making it free won't ensure that it won't happen.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#74

Post by ostacke »

ssl-3 wrote: post #71
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 50 cents is dual purpose, the one is obvious in that it pays for the attendant and them keeping it clean, but the other is like using a coin to unlock a trolley, it cuts back misuse by a lot. Once you've been to free vs 50 cent toilets a few times you'll see (and smell) the difference.

The trolley analogy doesn't really hold up in this context, does it? The incentive to do the right thing that a coin-deposit shopping cart ("trolley") adds is the ultimate return of that coin. It's not much money, but it is nonetheless returned when the cart is put back where it belongs. If a cart always costs 50 cents and there is no hope of ever getting that money back, then: The monetary incentive to return the ca…

Well, even if you don’t get your 50 cents back you usually have an incentive to leave the restroom when you’re done.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#75

Post by ssl-3 »

ostacke wrote: post #74
ssl-3 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trolley analogy doesn't really hold up in this context, does it? The incentive to do the right thing that a coin-deposit shopping cart ("trolley") adds is the ultimate return of that coin. It's not much money, but it is nonetheless returned when the cart is put back where it belongs. If a cart always costs 50 cents and there is no hope of ever getting that money back, then: The monetary incentive to return the ca…

Well, even if you don’t get your 50 cents back you usually have an incentive to leave the restroom when you’re done.

Does stretching the analogy help to ameliorate the difference betwixt a payment and a returnable deposit?

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#76

Post by [deleted] »

ishouldstayaway wrote: post #62
kazinator wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That practically ensures that some people who have to go really badly, and for whom €0.50 is a big deal, will just drop their business on the sidewalk.

> but this setup is certainly better than eliminating public restrooms entirely.

[deleted]

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#78

Post by bluefirebrand »

ssl-3 wrote: post #71
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 50 cents is dual purpose, the one is obvious in that it pays for the attendant and them keeping it clean, but the other is like using a coin to unlock a trolley, it cuts back misuse by a lot. Once you've been to free vs 50 cent toilets a few times you'll see (and smell) the difference.

The trolley analogy doesn't really hold up in this context, does it? The incentive to do the right thing that a coin-deposit shopping cart ("trolley") adds is the ultimate return of that coin. It's not much money, but it is nonetheless returned when the cart is put back where it belongs. If a cart always costs 50 cents and there is no hope of ever getting that money back, then: The monetary incentive to return the ca…

> If a cart always costs 50 cents and there is no hope of ever getting that money back, then: The monetary incentive to return the cart doesn't exist

The grandparent post is just talking about incentives.

I guess what you're saying is that if you pay 50 cents for the bathroom then there's no actual incentive to keep it clean because the 50 cents is gone either way, unlike a cart deposit?

You're probably right about that, but I also don't think most people actually need an incentive not to make a huge mess. I would put money that most messes in public bathrooms are caused by the people that the 50 cent charge filters out. The rest experience some social pressure from the attendant to keep things clean. If all else fails, the attendant can clean up a mess before the next person uses it

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#79

Post by jeffnash »

> Who ultimately determines the meaning of a public space: its designers, authorities, or the people who use it?

Restrooms are unique in that they are available to the public but, due to their inherently private nature, are a place where it is difficult to enforce social norms. Because of this, within the confines of the restroom itself, the authorities are all but irrelevant.

I was scrolling through the addictive and easy to stumble into YouTube reels feature and came upon a livestream of a gentleman having some sort of 'public restroom party' in a stall. By this, I mean he had collected every roll of toilet paper available, shredded them into confetti, and was throwing the confetti up into the air while blasting music at full volume out of his bluetooth speaker. He had a few thousand viewers and people appeared to be donating money for supercomments. I didn't stay to watch the end of the livestream, but I don't imagine he cleaned up.

By the time the private-but-livestreamed confetti party is over, the damage is done. You can try to anticipate every single unwanted activity in a restroom and try to prevent it beforehand (e.g. tinted lights to prevent IV drug use), but someone, somewhere will find a way to creatively make the owners decide a few frustrated customers who are told "no public restroom" is a small price to pay for the alternative.

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