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Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

larsfaye.com

281–290 of 574 posts

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#281
post #48

100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…

Engineers, free from writing thousands of lines of boilerplate, now have more time to review code and be more efficient in that armed with LLMs. E.g. instead of asking a question about the code and waiting for the author to respond, I can ask an LLM and get the answer almost immediately. Or, if I see some strange code being changed, I am always curious why it was there in the first place and, instead of tracing it through git blame over formatting, renaming, and moving files around dirs I can delegate this to an LLM. If I have doubts about it working in some environment I can, again, make an LLM test it out instead of asking the author etc. etc.

And no, telling Claude to implement a Jira ticket is not worth $200K/year. Checking if it has not done something stupid and correcting it when it's trying to - is.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#282
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone has this, but I always felt that a significant percentage of the value I bring is in immediately recognizing what you shouldn’t do . I have a hard enough time explaining why “yet another bespoke application on some unmanaged azure resources” is a bad idea when they have more reasonable alternatives at hand. Now these goofs can (very nearly) press a button and do it anyway, with no comprehension of the co…

This lands. Llms are bad precisely at following what not to do. They work best off of positive constraints. I have a design principles + tech preferences doc I force llms "lint" their approach against. It's not perfect but it helps. I call it a bias field, pushes them toward hopefully the happy and harmonious (with the rest of the system) paths. Obviously this is only partial and imperfect enforcement, but if it's ap…

I would be interested in see that. I have reems of rules I use with Claude.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this expresses what I've been trying to form in my mind. I've been trying to map the LLM advancements and the current state of software development onto prior technological improvements. History is littered with similar cases where the abstraction layer ends up getting lifted, and people struggle with getting accustomed to working at that higher abstraction level. For the people that fall in love with a singl…

> History is littered with similar cases where the abstraction layer ends up getting lifted, and people struggle with getting accustomed to working at that higher abstraction level. But there's no abstraction layer that ends up getting lifted. When I use a library like SDL or a standard like POSIX, I don't tend to look at the underlying implementation. Instead I work with the high level concepts that they come up wit…

>and everyone knows the quality of the result.

Yeah, a bespoke program that does exactly what I need it to do, at a speed that I had forgotten was possible on computers, with customization that is an exact fit to me, at a cost that is smaller than a rounding error.

I get that LLMs struggle with the old paradigm of a single piece of software meant to serve every conceivable use case of every conceivable user, but I kinda hope that paradigm dies.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#284

As a tech educator I 100% agree. LLMs are not going to become a "new compiler" where we don't have to worry about the code any more. There's a reason we trust deterministic systems. I've been worried about this a lot, I even created an agent skill called do-i-understand that's designed for novice devs (and experienced too, because atrophy) where the LLM asks you questions about the PR you're about to submit. I've fou…

Why do you trust the non-deterministic LLM with your skill?

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#285
post #48

100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…

> We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read this Jira ticket and implement the feature in this code base" isn't really worth $200K/year.

My argument here is that what is worth $200k+ is the ability to distinguish the changes that must get thorough, critical review from those that need only a couple of specific things verified and those that require no manual review at all.

Our jobs have never been to write code. We’ve been saying for decades that LoC isn’t a rational way to measure engineering output, and now we have our chance to structurally change that system before processes re-solidify. In fact, I think the flexibility to adopt new systems and the experience and foresight to choose a path that is better than the status quo without throwing out everything we’ve learned is going to be what sets companies apart and makes individual careers over the next few years.

> we have leadership air dropping AI generated manifestos on the product owners and product owners having to use AI to transmute all that shit into 1,500 word Jira tickets that are 10% necessary feature work and 90% LLM boilerplate.

There’s an important criticism here IMO - the relationship between “business” and “engineering” is changing drastically. It’s going to be a challenge to set the expectation that just because Marketing was able to vibe-code a prototype in a day, actual implementation may well take weeks or months. Engineering should be considering things like security, scalability, and systems integration that aren’t a concern for Marketing - that’s why we’re being paid!

> So now you have software engineers whose job has changed radically to the point that the hardest part about being a software engineer is just filtering through AI generated artifacts from all directions just to try to get a feature out the door.

I think it’s an extremely heterogenous landscape right now. Where I work I’m struggling mostly with organization - keeping the (literal) dozens of inbound features that come in every day straight long enough to hook up an agent harness, review, validate, and deploy. At other companies the issues seem to revolve around their Agile-based processes. Or maybe it’s non-technical vibe-coders and their expectations. Or maybe it’s executive leadership flirting with AI psychosis.

Everything is in flux. It’s stressful and exciting, and I’m thankful to be around for it, even if I am in my 40s at this point and looking at the core skills I’ve built rapidly become worth exponentially less. It’s a huge opportunity for growth.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#286
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone has this, but I always felt that a significant percentage of the value I bring is in immediately recognizing what you shouldn’t do . I have a hard enough time explaining why “yet another bespoke application on some unmanaged azure resources” is a bad idea when they have more reasonable alternatives at hand. Now these goofs can (very nearly) press a button and do it anyway, with no comprehension of the co…

This lands. Llms are bad precisely at following what not to do. They work best off of positive constraints. I have a design principles + tech preferences doc I force llms "lint" their approach against. It's not perfect but it helps. I call it a bias field, pushes them toward hopefully the happy and harmonious (with the rest of the system) paths. Obviously this is only partial and imperfect enforcement, but if it's ap…

> I have a design principles + tech preferences doc I force llms "lint" their approach against. It's not perfect but it helps.

I’ve done the same but it’s a moving target as models advance and I find half of my points are ignored until I’m prompting “No wtf why are you still trying to symlink the global Python executable just use the virtual environment that’s already activated”.

Anyway, companies are pouring billions into improving AI tooling user experience so most of what I do manually I just anticipate to be a waste of time. There’s no way my hobby fiddling will outpace whatever gets released in the next couple months.

In the meantime, real linting does work pretty well, if you can write a detector for whatever antipattern you find LLMs fall into (like multiline comments).

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#287
post #218
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we'll find that the people doing that, like the people spending all their time and energy reading slasher pulp fiction in the 1950s, won't be doing as well as the people learning to enhance the power of their education and their expertise via LLMs and strategic alternating between GenAI and thinking about problems. And eventually, if society ever steadies up a bit, people will learn the useful ways of using t…

I don't think it's quite as bad, but I'm imagining someone in the 1950s going: "People just have to use methamphetamines responsibly in their work, and then we'll see the massive benefits as widespread adoption unlocks the potential of the human mind." In other words, a positive outcome with thing X is possible but there are also big behavioral and cybernetic pitfalls, ones which are suspiciously persistent.

I mean I use coffee quite a lot to prop up my software career. I don’t really find purity to be useful for anything except to answer questions like “should I steal this money now that I am alone” or “should I backstab this friend who pissed me off today.”

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some day, not in the short term. I've seen output of bad developers using Fable and after that I sleep safe. A bad or below average dev with AI will run your product and company into the ground in a matter of weeks.

It's like a tool that has caused a fan out of both good and bad outcomes. Good: you can refactor your codebase at will, throw out legacy cruft by the megabyte, improve build/CI time, and simplify ruthlessly. Not to mention kick out new features in simple and consistent ways that align with what a user actually wants. Or you could add megabytes of vibe coded crap, solutions that add a ton of mass but don't actually so…

> My hope is that we'll see a number of companies collapse as they scale - with basically no hope of rescue

If you worked in SV like I did from 2010-2020 you know that the exact opposite of that will happen. I saw hundreds of companies successfully scale out of their garbage stack such as Facebook and PHP.

The only thing that matters is the problem you’re solving and the quality of the code is irrelevant.

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