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Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

larsfaye.com

211–220 of 574 posts

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#211
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your right to push back on that...

> Your right to push back on that... Human test passed. AIs make giant flashy mistakes. They don't fuck up basic grammar.

I have found it intriguingly difficult in my own tests to make LLMs deliberately fuck up grammar in any way similar to how humans do. I suppose this is actually an architectural limitation.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#212

Most computer science programs don't teach "coding" though. There is pretty heavy emphasis on datastructures, algorithms, and system design. I don't think AI atrophies those skills / knowledge as much as the coding language and I think in many cases actually improves them, especially if you are reading the code that is produced and at least understanding the flow of it. I agree that AI reliance is hurting engineer's…

I don't think that's quite correct; every CS program I've seen involves writing code, quite a lot of it. What they don't teach is /software engineering/: working large codebases, maintaining code, dealing with legacy code, long-term collaboration, working with product managed and designers, etc. That's stuff that you mostly end up having to pickup in the real world outside school.

Writing code and being formally taught a coding languages syntax and toolchain are quite different.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#213
Substantiveness of this article notwithstanding, I do want to point out that the author also runs (or is planning on running) a programming course which to me may be a slight conflict of interest. I think the author may altogether be well-intentioned, but it IS something that I'm going to keep in the back of my mind as I consume this content.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#214
post #48

100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…

Decades ago, enterprises said, "If you're writing assembly you're doing it wrong".

That led to a reduction in knowledge of assembly in the average programmer but the people who specialize in it haven't gotten any worse at it.

The result was a generation of programmers who make useful software while very few of them understand the machine they program. You could easily make either a positive or negative value judgement about that result.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#215
This happened before with “real” engineering. Engineers a hundred years ago used to be proficient with slide rules and mental math and 3D assembly by hand. Products designed in that era often lasted a hundred years, like Singer sewing machines and Lada cars and 500 year old churches. Now things aren’t built like they used to be, and few people can rebuild civilization by hand like they did. But the world moves on fine!

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#216
post #80
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really the same, since your average calculator doesn't take over executive function . The user thought and decided what needs to happen, down to one extremely well-specified task, which is so unambiguous that it can be completed by rote and without context. This is more like paying someone else to read your math homework, generate answers, and maybe even submit them on your behalf. If that had been the (average)…

I think we'll find that the people doing that, like the people spending all their time and energy reading slasher pulp fiction in the 1950s, won't be doing as well as the people learning to enhance the power of their education and their expertise via LLMs and strategic alternating between GenAI and thinking about problems. And eventually, if society ever steadies up a bit, people will learn the useful ways of using t…

[deleted]

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#217
post #48

100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…

People are fundamentally short-term thinkers. Just imagine spraying neurotoxins on your lawn. You're "saved" from the "terror" of noticing more than one kind of grass, but of course you're incrementally increased the cancer risk for yourself, your children, and who knows who else. This is just one example; people do this constantly. Plastic fleece puts an untold amount of poison into the environment, but "I need to be warm RIGHT NOW." etc. Or lead paint. "It's only toxic when it breaks down, and that won't be for decades!"

Why would programming be any different?

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#218
post #80
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really the same, since your average calculator doesn't take over executive function . The user thought and decided what needs to happen, down to one extremely well-specified task, which is so unambiguous that it can be completed by rote and without context. This is more like paying someone else to read your math homework, generate answers, and maybe even submit them on your behalf. If that had been the (average)…

I think we'll find that the people doing that, like the people spending all their time and energy reading slasher pulp fiction in the 1950s, won't be doing as well as the people learning to enhance the power of their education and their expertise via LLMs and strategic alternating between GenAI and thinking about problems. And eventually, if society ever steadies up a bit, people will learn the useful ways of using t…

I don't think it's quite as bad, but I'm imagining someone in the 1950s going: "People just have to use methamphetamines responsibly in their work, and then we'll see the massive benefits as widespread adoption unlocks the potential of the human mind."

In other words, a positive outcome with thing X is possible but there are also big behavioral and cybernetic pitfalls, ones which are suspiciously persistent.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#219
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask how many years experience you have?

20ish. What's your hypothesis?

It's basically laid out in the article: the reason that you are able to gain so much from LLMs is because of your decades of experience that predated their existence. Ability begets ability, but if that ability doesn't take root, these more advanced toolsets don't yield the same outcome (and are likely to do harm).

To be clear, I feel the same way as you. I have been doing this for about twenty-five years, and I have developed a keen sense of taste and judgment to know how to properly scrutinize and utilize these systems. I definitely feel like I am able to learn things faster, but that is directly correlated to having experienced a lot of friction over the years that cultivated said taste and judgment in the first place.

I imagine it's sort of similar to someone who's just getting started in mathematics, but is introduced to WolframAlpha, versus someone with decades of experience in the field and what they learn with it.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only monotone from someone looking, not from someone doing. If you look at digital painting tutorial, you'll see a lot of timelapse, because it's a very slow process where you spend the majority of time correcting stuff. But if you're the one doing it, each individual brush stroke is the result of a conscious decision.

I'm not sure; I find the job pretty boring.

Working on a passion project or working through the hairy details of a complex algorithm or whatever can be fun. But that's not really what the job is like most of the time.
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