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Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

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Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#141

Post by jeffbee »

mceachen wrote: post #89
jeffbee wrote: post #37

Is raw perf considered Apple's moat? I think it's their software. I would buy a MacOS laptop even if the performance is ghastly ... in fact, I did: the MacBook Neo.

The general workload performance (browsing, text editing) is comparable for neo and m* MacBooks afaict. Ghastly was macOS on an Intel MacBook Air.

Why would we compare it to an 8-year-old design? For browsing, the current MBP smokes the MBN, by margins of roughly one-third. It is a significant and noticeable regression. For sustained workloads like software development or even running the MacOS updates, it is a huge and glaring regression. But it's still good kit.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#142

Post by refulgentis »

booi wrote: post #123
jinzo wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread is the perfect example of useful idiots with astroturfing. This is a CPU core designed by UK company (and owned by Japanese) made in Taiwan on equipment made in EU (with non trivial USA components). Xiaomi here is the easiest to replace in this chain (and the Chinese have very much tried to replace any of the others, failing for now). Yet they are angling for a huge PR win.

ARM is merely an IP portfolio licensing company. They don't really design or build anything. And everyone uses TSMC (who uses ASML). The primary design is still being done by Xiaomi, that's the most unique part of this build. Stop downplaying how big of an achievement this is.

You are misunderstanding, and, they are not downplaying.

A revision or other reply would benefit from explaining how their value chain x location correspondence is wrong - perhaps missing a step?

Though, in anticipation of a revision, I wonder if its simple as you thought the cores were custom-designed by Xiaomi instead of standard ARM.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#143

Post by jeffbee »

Thomashuet wrote: post #72
jeffbee wrote: post #37

Is raw perf considered Apple's moat? I think it's their software. I would buy a MacOS laptop even if the performance is ghastly ... in fact, I did: the MacBook Neo.

Yes it is. I've bought a MacBook air despite despising MacOS (with the hope that Asahi support will come eventually) because the processor currently has no competition.

That's sort of weird though because unless the operating system supports your applications, the performance of the processor cannot be appreciated.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#144

Post by [deleted] »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #126
jinzo wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread is the perfect example of useful idiots with astroturfing. This is a CPU core designed by UK company (and owned by Japanese) made in Taiwan on equipment made in EU (with non trivial USA components). Xiaomi here is the easiest to replace in this chain (and the Chinese have very much tried to replace any of the others, failing for now). Yet they are angling for a huge PR win.

Did they license an actual chip design from ARM or just the ISA?

[deleted]

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#145

Post by pandemic_region »

paimapi wrote: post #106
trynumber9 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an ARM-designed CPU core, made in Taiwan. Very little difference from say MediaTek's upcoming Dimensity SoC just announced earlier because it is made on TSMC N3P instead of N2. I don't think they have any angle with that.

you say that like American lobbyists and Congress people are at-all technically minded and not just hyperbolic princes seeking influence at any cost

To be fair, describing the internet as a series of tubes is rather technical to some extent.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#146

Post by tokioyoyo »

EQFitzgerald wrote: post #86
fishfasell wrote: post #3

I can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security.

Xiaomi doesn't do business in the US anyway.

The angle is to pressure other countries to ban them as well.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#147

Post by zer00eyz »

like_any_other wrote: post #48
palmotea wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security. The motivation for such messages may be greedy, but it doesn't mean the facts aren't wrong: 1. As a practical matter, no one can audit systems so thoroughly to determine a system built by an adversary won't act adversarially. 2. Free market incentives work counter to n…

3. China was not stupid enough to rely solely on the free market to develop strategic industries. A few deliberately old sources to show this is not a sudden new development: Back in 2014, the central government set up the China National Integrated Circuit Industry Investment Fund. - https://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/article/2145422/how-ch... Over the next decade, China plans to invest up to RMB 1 trillion (US$16…

> Over the next decade

That was a 2016 article.

We're at the other end of that investment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZSvDYDfd78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBhQrz9EJ40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KrdcTsScKk

It did not quite turn out like china wanted.

This isn't to be dismissive of what they ARE delivering - china has the potential to be very big in RAM, and Storage in the comming decades. But I'm not sure that they met their industrial and geopolitical goals with these efforts.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#148

Post by palmotea »

paxys wrote: post #16
palmotea wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security. The motivation for such messages may be greedy, but it doesn't mean the facts aren't wrong: 1. As a practical matter, no one can audit systems so thoroughly to determine a system built by an adversary won't act adversarially. 2. Free market incentives work counter to n…

Can we audit American corporations?

>> 1. As a practical matter, no one can audit systems so thoroughly to determine a system built by an adversary won't act adversarially.

> Can we audit American corporations?

What's your point? Did you even read what I wrote? The five words of your comment seem to be pretty sloppy:

1. If you're taking about their products, which is probably what you meant: if you think they're your adversary, then the answer is no, it's pointless.

2. But your comment as written reads as if you're talking about auditing the corporations themselves, which does in fact happen (for tax and financial reporting purposes).

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#150

Post by [deleted] »

booi wrote: post #123
jinzo wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread is the perfect example of useful idiots with astroturfing. This is a CPU core designed by UK company (and owned by Japanese) made in Taiwan on equipment made in EU (with non trivial USA components). Xiaomi here is the easiest to replace in this chain (and the Chinese have very much tried to replace any of the others, failing for now). Yet they are angling for a huge PR win.

ARM is merely an IP portfolio licensing company. They don't really design or build anything. And everyone uses TSMC (who uses ASML). The primary design is still being done by Xiaomi, that's the most unique part of this build. Stop downplaying how big of an achievement this is.

[deleted]
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