"Assembly expertise is going to collapse from compiler reliance".
Did this not happen?
Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance
81–90 of 573 posts
Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance
#82Are engineers still making 100s of thousands a year still just for vibe coding while a nurse and other skilled / highly trained medical professionals working their butt off make half of that? Do we think there is going to be a correction for the vibe coders? Pardon I know such question is controversial but thinking ahead.
While it depends on the market, job, and hours, but the bedside nurses I know make in the low $100k range. Typical shift structure at the hospital is three 12 hour shifts in a row and then four days off. Most of the time, they are union jobs, so they receive many benefits from collective bargaining such as increased holiday and overtime pay in the range of 1.5-2x normal rate. A nurse practitioner tends to make something in the 180-220k realm.
Again, to be clear, this is highly dependent on the market, job, and hours and one needs to understand the difference between a CNA, RN, NP, etc. However, it's a regulated typically union job that's very secure and in high demand. It probably pays more than what you expect.
Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance
#83100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…
I think there are two parts to it
1. Execution of engineering task - Companies happen to focus on this mostly and this is the metric to measure easily. Using LLM tools gives a impression of improvement on this area which is what everyone is chasing
2. Growth of the Engineer - This is the one which was always a side product of company culture, individuals interest, work being done, time being spent to understand, learn from failures. A job being executed perfectly for the first time itself does not gives the opportunity for learning, no memories/experiences are built up mind of the person executing the job after a while.
The second part is the one which is under appreciated in current scheme of things since it was a by product. There is a concept of muscle memory which pretty much applies to everything.
Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance
#84And math skills are going to collapse from calculator reliance.
A more apt analogy is the diminishing understanding of assembly language and machine instruction sets. I love programming and something got lost in both transitions, first to high level languages and now to coding agents. I am quite sure some contexts will require programming by hand for a long while as there are still people who are writing amd64/avx512/sass by hand. I hope in time we will find new ways to enjoy sol…
> the diminishing understanding of assembly language and machine instruction sets
This is true and nobody complains that GCC or LLVM is making programmers dumber. They are code-generation tools from higher-level source code. Much like LLMs are code-generation tools for higher-level language/prompting.
Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's something weird about nurse pay where it doesn't seem to raise even during large shortages of qualified nurses. I think it's artificially lowered by hospital admin, with temporary traveling nurses acting as "scabs" to avoid the normal wage increasing
It is weird how it works with anyone there but the doctors... Do they have some type of cartel or mafia that nurses and other staff don't have?
At least where I live there’s a shortage of doctors so you can’t negotiate with them . There’s a shortage of nurses too, but if you lose 1 nurse because they’re striking it’s bad but things don’t collapse.
With 1 fewer doctor who also knows and is allowed to do things nurse don’t / can’t things get really bad. They also have access to power, are often elected, and are respected.
Nurses need to unionize I think and strike to get something .
Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance
#86And math skills are going to collapse from calculator reliance.
Math skills had never anything to do with arithmetic. Maybe Ramanujan discovered a couple of theorems by dealing with numbers themselves. That is it. Online discourse though is collapsing under dumb AI talking points.
Man, Usenet had the best online discourse - hardly any angry personal flaming because people dared to disagree. And Twitter, wow that was just pure rationality. slashdot - practically a masters program.
Now, they all did have gems of interaction that would could find by sifting thru the dumb stuff, but I find that property of discourse to be pretty steady. I've even found some interesting comments on YouTube videos and newpaper websites.
Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance
#87100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…
> That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read this Jira ticket and implement the feature in this code base" isn't really worth $200K/year.
When you factor in overhead and benefits, many companies were regularly paying that much for someone (many someones) to "read this Jira ticket and implement the feature".
We are currently in the "centaur" phase where a human-AI combination produces the best output, but I think some people are betting on the fact that the AI only product will eventually outperform the centaur. And with the cost of tokens falling thanks to fierce competition from the Chinese open weight models, it's definitely possible that those that bet on AI early will reap payoffs in lower expenditures for more output.
Honestly not sure which side I land on that bet but I definitely can't rule it out.
Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance
#88// The need for ongoing friction in long-term skill formation. The subtitle of the story tells it all. There are some people who seek out friction. Think about an athlete or a hardcore nerd. The best engineers are ones who were fascinated with computers and learning as kids and persued it at every opportunity. Found their own friction in other words. For those kinds of people, friction-seeking is the constant and wha…
I mean if you think about it, that sounds like a miserable existence to begin with.
I would not rule out that some people will use this.. uh.. disruption, to start pursuing something that actually brings them joy.
Of course, bills need to be paid and it's not all that simple. But at least there might be such a silver lining.
Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance
#89I strongly agree with the concept that cognitive friction is the engine of learning. First and foremost, it's an issue of "dependency": if you stop training the "muscle" of logic and reasoning, it gradually atrophies, just like unused physical muscles. You become dependent on external tools that replace a capability you once had yourself. A historical example that brought about a similar shift is this: when the produ…
> cognitive friction is the engine of learning.
I agree 100% too.
This is why in order to understand new codebase or to ramp up to new projects, I use AI to generate a textbook style reading material for me along with "verify yourself" types of exercises along the way. Then I print them on a paper and read it using a pencil/pen and take notes.
Because of my math training, I am in the habit of slowing down to read textbook style texts which helps.
Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance
#90I used to think this was a problem. But now? I don’t think it matters.
Why? Because people are going to get so much more ambitious about the stuff they build with AI, that code expertise for the stuff they are building is already scarce anyway. People will choose difficult and less popular languages, and will replace open source packages with stuff built entirely in-house by AI.
Going forward, there is no choice except for AI to fully replace the need for code expertise. Depending on humans won’t be scalable.