How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs • Hacker News Board

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#241

Post by mns » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

mstaoru wrote: post #190

I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not), but I can share how it is done in China (where package volume is orders of magnitude higher). China identifies "choke points" most packages pass: large platforms and logistics companies. Yes, Chinese e-commerce is more centralized on Alibaba/JD/PDD etc, but there are actually much more logistics companies in China than in EU. They also do not intr…

> They also do not introduce these regulations "from tomorrow"

This wasn't introduced "from tomorrow", people had 1 year and a half to prepare for this (at least) or to protest this. See some comments below how individual countries actually messed this up.

> But of course EU is fundamentally different in a way that the politicians need to please the electorate, so nothing is really planned ahead.

> I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not)

It's good that you take the time to just make assumptions about how the EU is bad based on your knowledge on how it operates...

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#242

Post by akoboldfrying » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

blks wrote: post #167

Are these rules actually that destructive, or are we witnessing astroturfing campaign?

TFA laid out exactly how destructive it is. It would wipe out the 50% of Lectronz sellers who sell What wasn't clear? Do you not find those claims plausible?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#243

Post by PeterHolzwarth » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

cloudie78 wrote: post #198

yardie wrote: post #29

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed…

Ah yes, let’s give the EU and its undemocratic system in which policy formation is heavily filtered through a relatively narrow professional political class, ordinary voters have weak or almost no direct control over major policy choices, dissent encounters administrative/economic punishment, and central institutions possess and use powerful financial means to discipline peripheral governments should have even more c…

Yeah, that's always been my concern with the EU (I'm American, for context): the long worrying practice where the legal concept of the EU is assembled by a small group who very much want EU citizens to go back to sleep and only wake up once all the laws and regulation has been created.

A federation makes sense to me: I live in one. But how the EU has assembled itself in a way that seems to unrepresentative has been worrying to watch over the last couple decades.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#244

Post by radicalbyte » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #219

yardie wrote: post #29

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed…

Yes. I used to sell objects on Amazon in Europe. You can sell from just one country, but then each sale outside of that country is an "export" that triggers high fees. For sales to be "local", products need to be stored in warehouses in each country. But that in turn means the owner of said products (the seller) has to be registered for VAT in that country, and submitting annual reports in each country's language. I…

Having worked on the inside: this is by design. You know for 100% that Pepsico and Coca Cola unleashed an army of lobbyists to make sure the laws were written in a way where the single market only worked for large business.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#245

Post by mstaoru » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #208

mstaoru wrote: post #190

I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not), but I can share how it is done in China (where package volume is orders of magnitude higher). China identifies "choke points" most packages pass: large platforms and logistics companies. Yes, Chinese e-commerce is more centralized on Alibaba/JD/PDD etc, but there are actually much more logistics companies in China than in EU. They also do not intr…

Per downthread, this whole crisis arises because of Chinese companies shipping to Europe. The EU Directives are definitely visible in advance, none of this is dropped on people.

I think this directive was from Feb 2025? Is 1 year enough for everyone to register in 25 different packaging regulation bodies, appoint representatives, etc etc?..

I also fail to see how this will stop Chinese companies from shipping to Europe. No Chinese company will register in this farce.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#246

Post by varispeed » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:56 PM UTC

armcat wrote: post #68

This is a great read and I can extend this argument really to any small business. Tax filing, VAT, bookkeeping, privacy, consumer, workplace and sectoral requirements frequently impose a disproportionately large cost on microbusinesses. EU is more and more split along the enterprise and VC backed line, and everyone in between has disproportionate costs. My barber in Stockholm often complains about this - the amount o…

General view of EU politicians is that working class should be working for big corporations. Running own business is a sin.

The big corporations also don't want people to run small business, because they remove themselves from the job market and cannot be hired / exploited. So they lobby EU FOR regulations that ensure people cannot run business.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#247

Post by igsomething » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:56 PM UTC

Doesn't this new law overlap with the existing system? A manufacturer within the EU is already paying taxes, which in part should be used for managing waste. If they buy the packaging materials from another EU company, well that company is also paying taxes already. If they are importing from outside the EU, the packaging material pays taxes.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#248

Post by throwawaypath » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:57 PM UTC

khalic wrote: post #33

echelon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it literally killing the majority of Europeans? How many deaths comes from an Arduino box? Europe's smart people are going to have to move to another country to be entrepreneurs. That's going to kill Europe faster.

> Europe's smart people are going to have to move to another country to be entrepreneurs Watch the stats please, the contrary is happening right now, plenty of American talents coming to Europe.

[flagged]

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#249

Post by IronyMan1 » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:58 PM UTC

l-one-lone wrote: post #221

IronyMan1 wrote: post #188

I believe the view layed out in the article is wrong. The German Wikipedia has an article about the PPWR. One Paragraph is saying: "The distributor must verify that the manufacturer and, where applicable, the importer have fulfilled their requirements, that all necessary markings are affixed to the packaging, and that the manufacturer is registered in the producer register pursuant to Article 44." That does not sound…

Unfortunately, for direct cross-border sales, the regulation explicitly makes the seller the "producer" in the customer’s Member State, and requires registration there. Buying an envelope from a registered Greek supplier does not register the seller in Germany or France.

OK you are right, i looked at a different regulation. But, i still do not understand why i cannot buy pregistered packaging for the whole EU? Or why i cannot register in one country for all Cross Border sales. I mean there are minimum standards imposed by the EU and the packages need to have a mark. So why is it like that? Even more 1 years after the draghi report....

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#250

Post by Turneyboy » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:58 PM UTC

mpweiher wrote: post #199

A couple of things to note: 1. The EU commission wanted a single central registry 2. It was the member states, via the Council of Ministers, that torpedoed this. 3. The EU now advises its member states to not implement/enforce this 4. Until the correction, which is on its way, can be fully enacted. So the same old same old: member states do shitty stuff and blame the EU.

Why would the implementation of this not simply be a fee that the mail carriers have to impose?

Isn't that by far the simplest solution that removes any and all bureaucracy for almost everyone and still catches 99% of the cases?