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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

lectronz.com

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#191

Post by delfinom »

charlieyu1 wrote: post #121

Is it actually a bad thing? From Asia I definitely see so much shady business practices from small businesses. Customer protection is non-existent. Keeping small businesses in drive prices down, but also drive wages down. I don’t think this is a compromise that many people would be happy with.

Small businesses result in innovation. There is little innovation from big business whose entire mission becomes profit maximization once sufficiently large enough. The little guys are that ones that come with new ideas and move fast to grow it. This is the entire story of startups in the US, silicon valley and more.

Big business also drives down wages way more than small businesses. When you are one of the few major employers in an industry, there is zero need to pay more while sucking in profit. Sure, maybe you could get an union involved but you are still subservient to the same employer who no longer has to respond to any labor market pressure other than quelling the union once in awhile.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#193

Post by petcat »

21asdffdsa12 wrote: post #171
bpodgursky wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is wealthier, has more billionaires and has fewer of these barriers for small entrepreneurs. So no, this is not the monocausal explanation that applies equally everywhere. (YES, the US has regulatory capture, YES the wealthy attempt to use it, YES we should try to eliminate it here too, but it remains true that it is easier to run a small business in the US, while having more billionaires. There are other expl…

Agreed, europe has a culture of "stability" first. The fear of disruption and chaos is larger after two WW and it outsourced the risks of disruption to the US. Basically, use the us as a test-mouse for new ideas and innovations, then when proven safe introduce them and ride those coat-tails to infinity.

> use the us as a test-mouse for new ideas and innovations, then when proven safe introduce them and ride those coat-tails to infinity

What actually happened, and continues to happen, is that Europe and the EU became entirely dependent on US tech and other foreign industry. It wasn't just a matter of "see what works and then copy it domestically". It oursourced basically everything.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#194

Post by bluGill »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #45
leros wrote: post #41

Laws like this really need to only be enforced for companies of certain sizes.

Selective enforcement is a tyranny generator. How about the law doesn’t exist if it doesn’t actually make sense?

The law makes sense, the details where things don't make sense

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#195

Post by shimman »

ionwake wrote: post #149
latexr wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please look it up You’re the one making the claim, so please provide sources for your fantastical scenario. By your logic there should be no small coffee shops across the EU, yet this is verifiably and patently untrue.

You should do your own research and I don’t want to take up space on HN but I’m happy to take a look can you name what exactly you found hard to believe? It’s been known for decades small business can’t survive legal landscape as easily as large corps. If you are confused by the statement there are no small coffee shops - are you living in Europe? From first hand experience coffee shops survive less than a couple yea…

uhh no, if you're the one making an argument the burden is on you to provide actual sources and not say "trust me bro, look it up."

You're trying to argue how school children argue, aim a little higher if you want to convince people that know how to read.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#196

Post by polski-g »

greenraven wrote: post #82
yardie wrote: post #29

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed…

> It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part This is by design. It’s the same all over the world. The wealthy are not going to just let you compete

Oh no. It's the mysterious "they"!

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#197

Post by rjsw »

oblio wrote: post #122
rjsw wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ALDI stores in France, I don't know which ALDI without looking it up. Carrefour has stores in Italy and Spain.

> Carrefour has stores in Italy and Spain. And Auchan has stores in Spain (Alcampo). I'm not saying that the boundary is a 20km high wall of fire nothing can go through. I'm saying that: 1. the direction is mostly big countries -> smaller countries, and very rarely big countries -> other big countries or even rarer, smaller countries -> big countries. 2. 20+ years after the EU has started, the level of high level int…

People don't want complete integration.

If I go into the Carrefour in Sallanches (FR) then I will buy a completely different set of products to those that I would buy in the Carrefour in Aosta (IT), the two are 80km apart, I have shopped in both multiple times.

I don't think the supermarket example really maps across to the subject of the linked article.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#198

Post by cloudie78 »

yardie wrote: post #29

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed…

Ah yes, let’s give the EU and its undemocratic system in which policy formation is heavily filtered through a relatively narrow professional political class, ordinary voters have weak or almost no direct control over major policy choices, dissent encounters administrative/economic punishment, and central institutions possess and use powerful financial means to discipline peripheral governments should have even more centralised power?

And no, just because voting for MEPs is bolted on there as a pressure valve doesn’t suddenly make it all okay when most of the real decisions happen behind closed doors and adherence to the passed laws, no matter how damaging is ensured through financial coercion.

Not a single person voted or agreed to this law, and yet here we are.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#199

Post by mpweiher »

A couple of things to note:

1. The EU commission wanted a single central registry

2. It was the member states, via the Council of Ministers, that torpedoed this.

3. The EU now advises its member states to not implement/enforce this

4. Until the correction, which is on its way, can be fully enacted.

So the same old same old: member states do shitty stuff and blame the EU.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#200

Post by dom96 »

stephen_g wrote: post #63
the__alchemist wrote: post #10

This echos the FCC rules in the US, which I believe are gotten around by not complying. Even if you are not making an intentional radiator, and/or are using datasheet-specified layouts or modules, you still must comply, which makes these businesses non-viable if complying. I believe Adafruit gets around certifying every device by declaring themselves a cellphone company and being on good terms with regulators. This i…

FCC allows suppliers to self-declare conformance with EMI/EMC rules. You’re obviously taking a risk selling stuff if you haven’t had it properly tested so don’t really know if it passes but it’s unlikely to really be an issue for a small maker selling low quantities, especially if any intentional radiators (Bluetooth, WiFi etc.) are already-certified modules. Your device tends to need to be causing problems, that the…

Huh. I thought that is actually the EU that allows self declared conformance, rather than the FCC. But looking into this it seems both do?

I recall trying to build some hardware in 2020 and getting discouraged because of the CE/FCC silliness. Even though I could self declare for the EU it seemed like a big risk to do so.

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