How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs • Hacker News Board

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#131

Post by bpodgursky » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:17 PM UTC

greenraven wrote: post #82

yardie wrote: post #29

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed…

> It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part This is by design. It’s the same all over the world. The wealthy are not going to just let you compete

The US is wealthier, has more billionaires and has fewer of these barriers for small entrepreneurs. So no, this is not the monocausal explanation that applies equally everywhere.

(YES, the US has regulatory capture, YES the wealthy attempt to use it, YES we should try to eliminate it here too, but it remains true that it is easier to run a small business in the US, while having more billionaires. There are other explanations to the differential here).

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#132

Post by lukasbm » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:18 PM UTC

brohee wrote: post #75

leros wrote: post #41

Laws like this really need to only be enforced for companies of certain sizes.

This has its own issues. Big bad actors can now split their activities between more smaller companies to avoid some regulation. I've seen it happening.

that's fair game though. Either way they waste money on administrative overhead, which seems to be the goal of this whole procedure

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#133

Post by khalic » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:18 PM UTC

cm2012 wrote: post #83

khalic wrote: post #6

It's funny, because what's actually, literally killing people is pollution...

In Europe air pollution, while much higher than the United States, is at a hundred year low.

slightly off topic wouldn't you say?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#134

Post by 0x_rs » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:18 PM UTC

troupo wrote: post #73

yardie wrote: post #29

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed…

Because if the EU tried to force countries into single compliance, there would no end of "EU is trampling national interests" and similar screaming. It's an unwinnable situation. Again, EU-level politics keep assuming everyone (corporations and states) are adults. Unfortunately, everyone are just a bunch of screaming, scheming petulant children.

>Again, EU-level politics keep assuming everyone (corporations and states) are adults. Unfortunately, everyone are just a bunch of screaming, scheming petulant children.

One in four MEPs are involved in scandals [0] ranging from harassment to organized crime and corruption. The European Parliament also remains a free out-of-jail card through abuse of parliamentary immunity, and they do abuse it [1]. EU politics is a circus.

0. https://archive.is/neTOG

1. https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-parliament-accused-overre...

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#135

Post by rescbr » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:18 PM UTC

alephnerd wrote: post #60

yardie wrote: post #29

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed…

The bigger issue in OP's case is they are dependent on de minimis . The de minimis crackdown [0] and EPR [1] are both being rolled out because Chinese conglomerates like Pinduoduo (Temu) and SHEIN took undue advantage of that while ignoring European regulators on issues such as environmental regulations on packaging [2], dark patterns [2], breaching the Digital Services Act [3], and gacha/addictive engagement mechani…

The issue is that those marketplaces got too mainstream, and the average consumer is too stupid.

10-15 years ago if you were importing stuff from China you'd know that the trade off for cheaper prices is that you'd lose your consumer laws protection and you'd be on your own. If you wanted those, then you'd go to your local retailer and pay extra.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#136

Post by latexr » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:18 PM UTC

ionwake wrote: post #69

as the whole world crushes small entities one has to wonder whether the EU would be the saviour or not. Apparently not. With its rules, they merely help crush small business as per usual. I heard in the 50s an american could just startup a business installing septic tanks. But now the same person would need a myriad of regulations to be met, heavy equipment use mandated, all of which raise overhead to a level where i…

> Please look it up

You’re the one making the claim, so please provide sources for your fantastical scenario. By your logic there should be no small coffee shops across the EU, yet this is verifiably and patently untrue.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#137

Post by imthatsteve » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:19 PM UTC

khalic wrote: post #33

echelon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it literally killing the majority of Europeans? How many deaths comes from an Arduino box? Europe's smart people are going to have to move to another country to be entrepreneurs. That's going to kill Europe faster.

> Europe's smart people are going to have to move to another country to be entrepreneurs Watch the stats please, the contrary is happening right now, plenty of American talents coming to Europe.

[flagged]

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#138

Post by lccerina » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:19 PM UTC

The complaint is totally understandable, BUT the examples do not make sense. Arduino did not start as some dude selling less than 10 boards a year, but as an educational tool, which THEN ramped up to 100s of boards produced every day.

If your perspective is "I may sell 10 boards this year, maybe", your target is some local/national maker-faire, not a EU marketplace.

I think makers with such limited productions will just fly under the radar (if you sell so little, it's likely you probably won't need to incorporate or declare taxes in a lot of EU countries). If they sell 100s of products across EU, they probably have at least one over-worked accountant taking care of existing compliance stuff.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#139

Post by ajmurmann » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:19 PM UTC

Xelbair wrote: post #88

yardie wrote: post #29

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed…

>One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated I would argue it's even worse, because with properly designed federated system you get checks and balances to some extent. There are parts of EU that have almost zero oversight.

Can you elaborate more? When you say "checks and balances" do you mean explicit legal mechanisms or implicit mechanisms like Tiebout-style foot voting? For the latter areas with "almost zero oversight" seem advantages. Also, can you give an example of these low-oversight places and how it manifests? I'm thankful even for some pointers in what to search for.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#140

Post by oblio » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 2:20 PM UTC

DanielHB wrote: post #72

oblio wrote: post #30

This is a direct result of national politics. EU member states want all the benefits of integration without giving anything up, especially things that they consider aspects of national sovereignty. * * * I'll give you an example. I'm from Romania. In Romania in 1990 there were no private enterprises, so everything was state owned. There was a HUGE demand for commerce/retail, so small local businesses popped up. They…

Language, payroll-rules and tax-rules alone can be enough to prevent a business from expanding into a market. Even when there is no foul intent, just different set of rules. I am from Brazil and it is not unusual for companies to operate only within certain states because of this. Even though Brazil is a single country with a single language and mostly federal rules about things, there is still enough variance of law…

> Then you hear about Canada which has tariffs between its own provinces, but not to the US.

Canada doesn't have, and should not have, the level of ambitions the EU should have. We're talking about EU 450 million people (500+ million if the UK rejoins at some point) vs Canada 35 million.

The EU should go toe to toe with the US and China. The EU is utterly dominated by US software companies and by Chinese green tech companies (batteries, solar panels, EVs).