Leonardo da Vinci was a hopeless procrastinator. • Hacker News Board

Re: Leonardo da Vinci was a hopeless procrastinator.

#51

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 6:45 AM UTC

10ren wrote: post #20

jonmc12 wrote: post #9

On a day to day basis Leonardo would allocate his time between customer projects and his own. He would balance client commitments with his natural energy for creativity - and according to this article, his natural energy often won that battle. It could be argued that it was the vision and taste of the Medici family in Florence that actually launched the renaissance. Their customer dollars enabled a new class of Itali…

What was the cause of the prosperity that generated these customer dollars? Isn't it arguable that with enough people with excess wealth, patronage of the arts/science is inevitable? With the wealth of today's first world, anyone who wants to be a passionate creative can be. And many are. Money isn't the problem; gumption is. I think the article is a bit ridiculous at the end, about how the man is keeping academics d…

[deleted]

Re: Leonardo da Vinci was a hopeless procrastinator.

#52

Post by jacoblyles » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 6:49 AM UTC

biohacker42 wrote: post #34

jonmc12 wrote: post #9

On a day to day basis Leonardo would allocate his time between customer projects and his own. He would balance client commitments with his natural energy for creativity - and according to this article, his natural energy often won that battle. It could be argued that it was the vision and taste of the Medici family in Florence that actually launched the renaissance. Their customer dollars enabled a new class of Itali…

The freedom to pursue creative fulfillment is very unusual in human history. The vast majority of the time it just takes far too much time and energy to survive. On very rare occasions, people have enough time to create art. An example I can think of is the native Americans in the pacific north west, before the arrival of Europeans. The unique combination of: Seasonal salmon runs - very good calorie rich food that's…

And then again, the United States has 200,000 professional artists, who earn a living from their craft:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos092.htm#projections_data

It seems a recurrent mistake that people underestimate how truly unprecedented and awesome our society is.

Also, a large, dense population with lots of wealth is much more art-friendly than your sparse, idyllic native American population. The Indians didn't come up with Beethoven, and there's a reason for that.

Re: Leonardo da Vinci was a hopeless procrastinator.

#53

Post by pkaler » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 8:23 AM UTC

jhancock wrote: post #18

"The unambiguously negative idea of procrastination seems unique to the Western world" As an American living in Shanghai for 9 years, I have had to confront this meme in its various forms on many occasions. My wife (Chinese) will simply tell me things like "Chinese people are not afforded the luxury of your behavior". It appears procrastination is something that must be "afforded". Its not that procrastination is uni…

Paraphrasing David Allen: Procrastination isn't about not getting things done. Procrastination is about not getting things done AND feeling bad about it.

I spent a month in India this year. It's a much slower lifestyle there. When something doesn't get done, they just don't feel bad about it.

(Obviously, huge generalizations in that last paragraph.)

Re: Leonardo da Vinci was a hopeless procrastinator.

#54

Post by IsaacSchlueter » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 10:09 AM UTC

unalone wrote: post #24

ajju wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An entrepreneur who caters to something other than a "customer driven market" is a rare one. And even if an entrepreneur can create a whole new market on their own by innovating, it will soon become customer driven. I am betting on the theory that entrepreneurship itself provides much more space for creativity than most other professions and if you succeed, you'll have a lot of money and time to pursue creativity ful…

The best creations are the ones inventors are making for themselves. I was reading the interview with Steve Wozniak in Founders at Work , and what most struck me was how he talked about Apple's biggest innovations as being things either he or Steve Jobs made for themselves, because they wanted their computers to be better. The guys at 37signals made their products so that they could use them. Mark Zuckerberg made Fac…

Mark Zuckerberg made Facebook for himself and friends.

That's not quite true.

First of all, not all of his "friends" agree that Z "made" rather than "stole" Facebook. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConnectU

Second, whether or not there's anything to the ConnectU case, Facebook is a commercialized version of HarvardConnection.

So, the model seems to be:

    1. (get someone else to) Create something you need.
    2. Take it.
    3. Sell it.

Either (a) Zuckerberg is a douchebag who stole the site, or (b) the ConnectU folks are douchebags who want to mooch off of Zuckerberg's idea. The morals of these potential stories seem to be:

      a) Douchebags will steal from you.
      b) Douchebags will try to mooch off of you.
    a+b) Don't associate with douchebags.  (And if you do,
         then at least make sure to get rich and win the 
         lawsuit.)

Re: Leonardo da Vinci was a hopeless procrastinator.

#55

Post by eru » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 2:18 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #44

bentoner wrote: post #6

My solution to procrastination: 1. Identify the activities you procrastinate (for me, writing scientific papers); 2. Rearrange your life so you don't have to do them any more. (I just left academia to do a startup.)

that's the single best solution to the procrastination problem I've seen. Another possibility is to rearrange things in such a way that the only think you can still do are the things you are trying to get away from.

You can always sit there and stare.

Re: Leonardo da Vinci was a hopeless procrastinator.

#56

Post by eru » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 2:21 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #49

mblakele wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may not apply to Leonardo da Vinci, but I'm reminded of M.A. Foster's notion that overcrowding generates bureaucracy. The idea may not be original to him, but he suggested that people erect social or procedural barriers when physical ones are no longer available. Perhaps procrastination is a similar phenomenon. The workplace is ubiquitous now, if we allow it to be. Do we procrastinate so that our minds have time…

Let's not forget that the invention of bureaucracy was hailed as a beautiful and wonderful thing, in order to prevent rich people from buying positions in govt and also getting personal favors out of other govt officials.

Yes. See Max Weber on the topic.

Re: Leonardo da Vinci was a hopeless procrastinator.

#57

Post by briancooley » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 3:31 PM UTC

electromagnetic wrote: post #17

I completely disagree that Leonardo was a procrastinator simply because he didn't do everything he dreamed of. I'm sorry, I've looked through some of the books of his designs and he has things like strip-miners and hang-gliders and such. I'm sorry, they were physically incapable of making them in his day. He understood concepts and designed things that fit them, likely knowing he'd never be able to build them in his…

You might not consider him a procrastinator, but the folks who had paid him for paintings and sculptures that he never produced probably did.

Just because you're doing something productive doesn't mean that you aren't procrastinating. The trick, I think is getting the things that you are supposed to be doing matched up with the things you want to do. I think that's what most people mean by "find your passion."

Re: Leonardo da Vinci was a hopeless procrastinator.

#58

Post by biohacker42 » Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 3:52 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #46

biohacker42 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The freedom to pursue creative fulfillment is very unusual in human history. The vast majority of the time it just takes far too much time and energy to survive. On very rare occasions, people have enough time to create art. An example I can think of is the native Americans in the pacific north west, before the arrival of Europeans. The unique combination of: Seasonal salmon runs - very good calorie rich food that's…

From what I've read, a lot of studies of "indigenous peoples" contradicts what you are saying. Especially regarding the time spent on necessities. I read an ethnographical book about how tribal peoples in the jungle 'worked' for at most half the day on their basic needs. Granted, the jungle is also plentiful (altho hazardous.) But the masses of people who have to walk hours for water, in Africa and parts of the Middl…

I should have been more specific. Clearly almost every people has created art.

It's hard to dig almost anywhere in the world and not at some point hit some magical amulet or wonderfully decorated pottery art, or something like that.

My point was about the rather unusual situation of Leonardo, and even more so, jonmc12 question on how to allow more people the same freedom Leonardo had.

The large degree of time and effort devoted to art, by a large part of the population, is unusual.

Clearly every society has art, and often individuals, shamans, singers, etc, can be full time so to speak. But it's rare that most people can devote most of their time, to activities other then survival.