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I were 17, I'd learn how to build LLMs from scratch

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Re: I were 17, I'd learn how to build LLMs from scratch

#391
post #13

There's this dilemma where in theory there's a ton of demand for engineers that can do real LLM machine-learning, but in practice there are very few available positions and entrepreneurship opportunities. The reality is that an incredibly small minority of companies in the world do any real training or optimisation. It's unnecessary and inefficient for most purposes unless you are fully dedicated to being an LLM comp…

I think a lot of this is based on preconceptions. A lot of apps were made with Electron, because it was common wisdom that native is 'too hard'. Now with LLMs, people write native apps in Rust, and I'd like to think some of them found that there isn't such a huge jump in difficulty they assumed there would be.

It never was native "too hard" it was always "too expensive".

That's the same case finding companies that will actually pay for hand made LLM instead of using something from big providers will be hard because most companies won't be able to afford it.

Yeah if you find a company that will do that stuff directly, good for you, but you will have to be very lucky and you will have to compete with other people who followed PG advice.

So I would rather learn all there is about properly using LLMs and integrating them with existing systems, that will most likely by useful for 90% of companies out there.

Building business niche harnesses is in my opinion much better direction. Knowing what will work best in specific cases is it FTS or vector search, optimisation of usage, getting best results while using cheaper models, knowing how to use tools to run models on the servers, and all the tooling around that like various MCP or just tooling that will be provided to models.

That is what I am currently busy with and I already have customers for that knowledge.

Re: I were 17, I'd learn how to build LLMs from scratch

#393
I'm not sure what 17 year old me would have done with YouTube tutorials for everything under the sun available.

I'm much older and less wise now, but I still afforded myself the opportunity to follow karpathy's tutorials to build a LLM from scratch. Got to play with a few ideas. Seen similar ideas turn up in frontier model work, which is quite gratifying.

There are so many ideas to try.

Currently playing with autoencoders that takes A and B and produce latents A', B', and C'. Reconstruction of A is from A' and C', B is from B' and C'

The idea is if C' can be made to improve both outputs, it must store as much information as it can about what is common to both inputs.

Re: I were 17, I'd learn how to build LLMs from scratch

#394

A lot of people here are responding to the message but not to the meaning. It would be a good idea for young people to deeply know how these programs work. Not so that they can spend their career building them, but so that they can approach the next class of problems we'll all start trying to solve, with intuition all the way down to the weights and underlying mathematics. And also, to develop a healthy intuition of…

> It would be a good idea for young people to deeply know how these programs work.

It would be a good idea for _everyone in the industry_ to deeply know how LLM training, inference and "agents" work, not least because it removes the ability of shysters to bamboozle with bullshit.

But, as much as a good idea it is for the young to understand this, it's the elderly who will be really taken advantage of if they do not keep up - just look at Facebook for good examples of why.

Re: I were 17, I'd learn how to build LLMs from scratch

#395
post #320

A lot of people here are responding to the message but not to the meaning. It would be a good idea for young people to deeply know how these programs work. Not so that they can spend their career building them, but so that they can approach the next class of problems we'll all start trying to solve, with intuition all the way down to the weights and underlying mathematics. And also, to develop a healthy intuition of…

> A lot of people here are responding to the message but not to the meaning. Well it is framed as quite specific advice . (I'm done with mining PG tweets for meaning)

[dead]

Re: I were 17, I'd learn how to build LLMs from scratch

#397
post #13

There's this dilemma where in theory there's a ton of demand for engineers that can do real LLM machine-learning, but in practice there are very few available positions and entrepreneurship opportunities. The reality is that an incredibly small minority of companies in the world do any real training or optimisation. It's unnecessary and inefficient for most purposes unless you are fully dedicated to being an LLM comp…

What about other machine learning related skills? Does this wave of LLM mean less need for that kind of work?

I would think not, but when I started to look into OCR options recently - assuming that obviously a dedicated tool would do a better job than an LLM - I was wrong (apparently).

Re: I were 17, I'd learn how to build LLMs from scratch

#398
The only realistic approach is to train on a limited data set which is probably less usable than the comibnation of a custom RAG + one of the many available LLMs.

Also many people/kids don't have access to proper "productive" systems anymore, since the whole computing and electronics industry shifted to make "consumer"-devices like smartphones or laptops made for netflix, gaming and spotify.

Breaking the barrier to build a custom system, install linux (or developer tools for Windows, MacOS) is already a complex AND costly task. It was just way simpler in the late 90s and 00s to get something working.

Re: I were 17, I'd learn how to build LLMs from scratch

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying, “teens shouldn’t learn how to make their own game engine because no one is hiring for that.” You’re missing the point. Understanding how Unity works fundamentally makes you a better Unity dev.

> You’re missing the point. Understanding how Unity works fundamentally makes you a better Unity dev. Writing your own game engine makes you realize that the Unity engine is not really that well written....

Writing your own game engine makes you realise that no game engine is written well (when it is written to ship a game).

Re: I were 17, I'd learn how to build LLMs from scratch

#400
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I'm curious, do people actually tried to hack vacuum tubes or other big servers that's barely 1MB RAM? It seems like another thing that needs big investment to work properly, unlike those other techs where results can be shown even with little materials.

Yeah, there are retrocomputing hobbyists who mess around with sometimes-physically-large computers that were important many decades ago. I don't know if anyone is hacking on vacuum tubes of the kind that you could in principle build a computer with - there's a reason they became obsolete for digital computation almost as soon as the transistor was invented. On the other hand, I personally think it would be neat to tr…

There are indeed!

Vacuum tube computer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAlnJnYt5do

Making vacuum tubes in a garage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UEfqAWb3fE

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