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Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

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Re: Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

#131

Post by izacus »

bluGill wrote: post #107
NewJazz wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's cursed, never realized that's how it worked.

It's a good idea actually, but it's also really complex to get right. Early version of Android Auto could transfer over USB 2.0 instead of Bluetooth, which works, but it's not near as high bandwidth.

> Early version of Android Auto could transfer over USB 2.0 instead of Bluetooth, which works, but it's not near as high bandwidth.

This sentence doesn't make much sense - Auto (and CarPlay) still work in wired mode over USB 2.0 if the head unit supports it. They never worked over Bluetooth.

(And they use less than 15Mbps so USB 2.0s 480MBps are more than enough)

Re: Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

#132

Post by scoot »

bluGill wrote: post #106
apublicfrog wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see nothing at a glance about the author (Dmitry Kalinin) being American, so I can't imagine that is relevant.

there is the problem. We don't know what country is in question. There are some countries where the truth is not a defense against libel. Thus, depending on where the author is from, or for that matter the publisher or other people who might happen to be in the chain, there could be a libel case if the truth was stated.

> There are some countries where the truth is not a defense against libel

Germany, for example. Utterly bizarre and baffling that a democracy protects its politicians this way. /s

Re: Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

#133

Post by scoot »

306bobby wrote: post #58
mschuster91 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nor does it affect Android Auto which is a "dumb" screen mirroring protocol with the bulk of the software running on the connected phone rather than the head unit Huh, how does that work anyway? And while we're at it, Apple CarPlay as well? Both can run wirelessly via Bluetooth, but BT is nowhere near capable enough to stream full bandwidth video?

Wireless AA and CarPlay use a hotspot your car emits that your phone connects to and transfers the image/inputs/audio that way

Got into a weird situation recently where my cheap android head unit was displaying Car Play from my phone, but (Google Maps) audio from my partner's.

Directions weren't coming from my phone's speaker or the car, but testing audio in the Maps app did (from the car).

Still not sure what combination of connections it had managed to get itself into!

Re: Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

#134

Post by bluGill »

toast0 wrote: post #121
bluGill wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long until the 4G networks are turned off? There are a lot of cars that have a 3G sim or even a 2G sim. They can do nothing because those networks have been turned off. At least I'm not aware of any car where they updated the radio in the car when the network got turned off. By contrast, I work for John Deere and just down the hall from me are people who made a ton of money when the 2G network got turned off beca…

> How long until the 4G networks are turned off? There are a lot of cars that have a 3G sim or even a 2G sim. They can do nothing because those networks have been turned off. There's a good chance it will last longer than 3G. 5G was designed to coexist with 4G so a 5G base station can (optionally) use a 4G compatible beacon and use 4G for some timeslots and 5G for others. Even if 6G doesn't do the same, 4G can live u…

3g was turned off long ago, 2g is now disappearing worldwide. I decline to speculate how how long they will keep that theoretical 4g active as devices using it disappear

Re: Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

#135

Post by bluGill »

izacus wrote: post #131
bluGill wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good idea actually, but it's also really complex to get right. Early version of Android Auto could transfer over USB 2.0 instead of Bluetooth, which works, but it's not near as high bandwidth.

> Early version of Android Auto could transfer over USB 2.0 instead of Bluetooth, which works, but it's not near as high bandwidth. This sentence doesn't make much sense - Auto (and CarPlay) still work in wired mode over USB 2.0 if the head unit supports it. They never worked over Bluetooth. (And they use less than 15Mbps so USB 2.0s 480MBps are more than enough)

They use Bluetooth to configure WiFi. Most people call that Bluetooth, but technically you are correct.

Re: Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

#136

Post by scoot »

01100011 wrote: post #31
dzdt wrote: post #21

There are a lot of cars out there where the head unit has connection to the CAN bus. Which means this malware vector could be used to directly cause crashes. E.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19751872

An aftermarket head unit connects to the CAN bus? The aftermarket head unit I installed certainly doesn't. Are you sure what you are saying, which is true for OEM units, applies to aftermarket ones?

I'm not aware of an aftermarket head unit that can't connect to CAN bus with the appropriate adapter (which are widely available).

Re: Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

#137

Post by creaturemachine »

xp84 wrote: post #98
reaperducer wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cannot self-propagate to any Android-based head unit Remember that not that long ago viruses spread through floppy disks. Today, people share USB sticks full of music from one car to another all the time. They also bring their music from their home car to a rental car and back.

I’ve never met anyone irl who used USB sticks full of music. I know the capability is there in most cars, just never seen it. It seems like Bluetooth capability and Spotify/Apple Music landed in mainstream cars too soon after “play MP3s from USB” was added, for that to catch on.

I have 256GB of FLAC in my car, and it's great.

Re: Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

#138

Post by Telaneo »

madduci wrote: post #85
Retr0id wrote: post #2

> Since a head unit typically holds nothing of value to an attacker, one of the more likely attack scenarios using “classic” Android malware is infecting the device to recruit it into a botnet People do pair them with their phones, though. I could imagine a future version of malware like this propagating laterally.

Some automakers like Nissan bring their own 4G SIM, which makes the pairing of phone not important, as the head unit can access Internet by itself

[dead]

Re: Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

#139

Post by pdonis »

charcircuit wrote: post #118
pdonis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My phone is much clunkier to use for this than a USB stick. Plus my phone can't store my whole music library (because there's too much other stuff already on it), whereas a single USB stick does it easily with plenty of room to spare.

Phones can access the whole internet. A USB stick can't stream Spotify or connect to the cloud.

Which doesn't matter to me since the music I'm talking about is music I already have on the USB stick (because it's music I've collected over years and years of buying CDs, mostly before ways of streaming music over the Internet even existed), and I mostly want to listen to that. If I want something else, I can just use XM radio.

Re: Malware infects Android-based automotive head unit firmware

#140

Post by NLMichel »

xp84 wrote: post #99
NewJazz wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's cursed, never realized that's how it worked.

Cursed is exactly how I would describe it - because it works great until it doesn’t and it of course gives you zero clue why it won’t connect.

Anecdotally, I just got back from a holiday trip across Europe and crossed four international borders. At every single border crossing, my CarPlay session disconnected, and I had to toggle CarPlay off and back on in my phone settings to reconnect. Very strange, and I still have no idea what caused it.
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