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New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

rte.ie

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Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#21

Post by troupo »

vv_ wrote: post #13
troupo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to support it indefinitely. Allowing users install what they want on it would be the best case scenario. Instead we have bullshit like "your TV is three years old? No updates for you": https://developer.samsung.com/smarttv/develop/specifications...

Your link doesn't say that the device isn't getting any updates. It only says that, if I understood it correctly, pre-2023 devices don't receive OS updates. They still get guaranteed security updates for five years. > They don't have to support it indefinitely. How long should support for devices last in that case? And what should be supported?

> if I understood it correctly, pre-2023 devices don't receive OS updates.

Indeed. An ancient 3-year-old device isn't receiving any OS updates. Which means it doesn't get features, its core software isn't updated inculding such minor things as the browser (most apps on TVs are browser apps), store etc.

Eventually its certificates will expire and it won't be able to connect to most things

> How long should support for devices last in that case? And what should be supported?

Depends on device. People don't buy TVs every year. So a 10-year support isn't out of the question. That said, 10 years should probably be minimum for almost all hardware.

E.g. Microsoft supports Windows for ~10 years, and for a much wider array of hardware.

After that: open up, and let people do whatever they want with it.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#22

Post by xxs »

troupo wrote: post #2

> including a repair obligation for manufacturers of certain products Unfortunately regulations often don't go far enough. I have a ~10 year old iPad Pro in perfect working condition. I can basically do nothing with it, and increasingly it can no longer even browse the internet because Safari is so outdated on it. So it will be waste. See similar story about Amazon bricking old Kindles: https://www.techradar.com/tabl…

the main issue is that's an ipad and it's locked. In contrast - a 15y+ laptop can be used (after few upgrades - i5-560M, 8GB RAM, 500GB SSD, AC-8260) to do office work: it runs the latest Firefox and Open Office + googledocs and friends without too much trouble.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#23

Post by thefz »

vv_ wrote: post #8
seemaze wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unlock old hardware and let the community support

It is not always possible to provide the required support. First, it is expensive, as someone needs to prepare all the materials and resources the community would need to continue supporting the product after official support ends. Second, there are legal restrictions, for example, you may not be allowed to provide access to the radio firmware. Finally, most companies simply do not want to make their intellectual pro…

> It is not always possible to provide the required support. First, it is expensive

By not doing it you are basically outsourcing this cost to the environment.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#24

Post by lnsru »

Good luck to hardware startups in Europe! For every developer now a company needs one technical writer or compliance specialist. That basically means that all small everyday electronics products will come from overseas. Either because it’s cheaper or it’s cheaper and nobody cares about certification.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#25

Post by xxs »

vv_ wrote: post #8
seemaze wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unlock old hardware and let the community support

It is not always possible to provide the required support. First, it is expensive, as someone needs to prepare all the materials and resources the community would need to continue supporting the product after official support ends. Second, there are legal restrictions, for example, you may not be allowed to provide access to the radio firmware. Finally, most companies simply do not want to make their intellectual pro…

The intellectual property is not some god given right unlike air and water. There is little need not to support a decade old hardware and effectively turning the said hardware to a door stop, or a landfill.

Btw, it's difficult to believe the post is a good faith argument.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#26

Post by mdp2021 »

troupo wrote: post #21
vv_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link doesn't say that the device isn't getting any updates. It only says that, if I understood it correctly, pre-2023 devices don't receive OS updates. They still get guaranteed security updates for five years. > They don't have to support it indefinitely. How long should support for devices last in that case? And what should be supported?

> if I understood it correctly, pre-2023 devices don't receive OS updates. Indeed. An ancient 3-year-old device isn't receiving any OS updates. Which means it doesn't get features, its core software isn't updated inculding such minor things as the browser (most apps on TVs are browser apps), store etc. Eventually its certificates will expire and it won't be able to connect to most things > How long should support for…

> An ["]ancient["] 3-year-old device isn't receiving any OS updates

In the "save the planet" times.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#27

Post by embedding-shape »

jeremiahlee wrote: post #14

Great, now require it for software.

I'm not disagreeing, but also I don't understand what you mean. It's already legal for you to repair your own software, AFAIK? Or are you proposing they force only "source available" software or something?

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#28

Post by stavros »

Hendrikto wrote: post #15
troupo wrote: post #2

> including a repair obligation for manufacturers of certain products Unfortunately regulations often don't go far enough. I have a ~10 year old iPad Pro in perfect working condition. I can basically do nothing with it, and increasingly it can no longer even browse the internet because Safari is so outdated on it. So it will be waste. See similar story about Amazon bricking old Kindles: https://www.techradar.com/tabl…

I recently had to throw out a first gen iPad that was physically still in mint condition (even including the battery, somehow), simply for the lack of support essentially turning it into a useless brick.

I understand that Apple can't provide upgrades for free, but why can't I buy an upgrade for $30 or whatever? Better than throwing away perfectly good devices.

And they won't let anyone install any other software onto the hardware, so I can't even rely on the free market providing what I want.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#29

Post by embedding-shape »

troupo wrote: post #2

> including a repair obligation for manufacturers of certain products Unfortunately regulations often don't go far enough. I have a ~10 year old iPad Pro in perfect working condition. I can basically do nothing with it, and increasingly it can no longer even browse the internet because Safari is so outdated on it. So it will be waste. See similar story about Amazon bricking old Kindles: https://www.techradar.com/tabl…

> Unfortunately regulations often don't go far enough.

Eh, what are you proposing? That these new regulations should cover +10 year old devices too?

Similarly I still have an iPhone with a lightning port instead of the legally mandated USB-C port, but at no point was I expecting Apple to somehow change the ports of existing devices.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#30

Post by moffkalast »

Y-bar wrote: post #19
jeremiahlee wrote: post #14

Great, now require it for software.

They have already begun. It’s called the Product Liability Directive (2024/2853) and forces software providers to guarantee fitness for purposes and safety.

Does that conceptually imply we might get newer OS releases for ARM machines that ship with one that's already outdated and call it good? That would be pretty epic, but I doubt it covers it.
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