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Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

punyamishra.com

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Re: Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH creating neural connections takes time. It's a real distance. Small for us, but great for the cells. That's why explaining difficult concepts too fast, while cool for people getting things instantly, is not good for general population.

I very much agree and it saddens me often when I see folks dial it up to 1.5x or 2x "because it is boring otherwise". They might think they just get as much, only in half the time, but I'd hypothesize that they retain less because the mind needs some time to digest. Similar with the trend to auto-cut pauses that speakers make, just to cram in more text into a youtube video. Destroys not just the pacing but any chance…

I think there was a study omparing watching an educational video in 1x speed and watching it two times back to back in 2x speed equating the time spent on the material, which found the second group faired better.

Re: Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

#102
post #4
post #3

Overall, I do agree with the thesis but: > Now… how does Sal Khan want my kid to learn? > Watch a video. I find this a little uncharitable. I learned a lot of math at a young age from Sal Khan's early videos (back when he used to erase by switching to a black pen and scribbling across the entire screen) and, to put it in the author's terms, it served as an easy-to-digest scaffolding on top of which to build a deeper…

Side note, but much as I like Khan Academy overall, I've always struggled with Sal's slow and repetitive speaking style in the videos. "Now you add the five ... [pause] ... add the five ... add the five to the seven ... to the seven..." Running them at 1.5 - 2x helps a bit, but it's still annoying to the point that I find it very distracting.

Not sure that I'm adding anything to this, or that what I'm saying is even relevant, but Sal does (or did) have a deviated septum, and as someone who suffers from the same / similar root cause of breathing issues, I'm pretty sure speaking is (or was) taxing for him, probably contributing at least mildly to such a style.

Personally I like it.

Re: Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

#103

Khan Academy has a problem lately: Go visit a page like https://www.khanacademy.org/math/linear-algebra and count the number of: * cookie banners * donation panhandling modals * account signup widgets * gamification modals to tell you about leveling up * etc It does not communicate that their primary goal is to educate, it feels more like the primary goal is fuelling the bureaucracy behind the charity.

To be fair, if they redid the linear algebra curriculum and included exercises, they could spin that up into a solid paid program.

Re: Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

#104
A comment I had made on Dan Meyer's article, also relevant here (Also, as others are pointing out here, there is a crucial difference between the videos and their chatbot; you can inspire with videos because your human interests are on display):

This resonates so much with me. I am the co-founder of a microschool and also a neuroscientist. And these two have intersected so much in fascinating ways. Four years in, the big lesson for us is that for learning to make sense it should have the following progression: meaning, motivation, mechanics, measurement.

Conventional schooling, and everything designed to help with conventional schooling like Khanmigo give in to this systemic gravitational pull of measurement (we must know what they are learning). And from that ensues your standardized curriculum, measuring the visible and easy, because that's easier than something like "mathematical thinking", and the focus on mechanics (multiplication tables, fractions, chemical names, whatever). And in doing this we leach out all meaning and focus on the drills.

Chatbots, the way they are set up now, are doomed to fail because the entry point is mechanics. "How do I solve this particular quadratic equation?" It's a meaningless question to a child because it simply does not connect to their world. We cannot start with that and work Socratically towards meaning. We must instead offer or build a world where meaning and sense-making are possible. (Wrote about this here https://blog.comini.in/p/why-khanmigo-will-fail )

Personally interesting for me is how meaning-making and sense-making are essentially the core of conscious experience. We, bundles of experiences, cohere and conspire and collaborate to create a meaningful experience from the sensory data that assaults us. Data that would be meaningless without a perspective.

So in education we are doing the same thing that the mind does so effortlessly by existing and being in the world and grappling with it. But we shoot ourselves in the foot by taking a reductive lens and split it into elements.

That's worked well for us only until we encountered complex adaptive systems that need us to also focus on the whole. But the system has been built to focus on the narrow and hope that these come together at some point. And so we end up with this meaning crisis we are all navigating, in school and outside.

More about Meaning before Mechanics here: https://blog.comini.in/p/schooling-has-a-meaning-crisis-para...

Re: Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

#105
post #58
post #3

Overall, I do agree with the thesis but: > Now… how does Sal Khan want my kid to learn? > Watch a video. I find this a little uncharitable. I learned a lot of math at a young age from Sal Khan's early videos (back when he used to erase by switching to a black pen and scribbling across the entire screen) and, to put it in the author's terms, it served as an easy-to-digest scaffolding on top of which to build a deeper…

The attacks on Khan here personally irked me. I grew up in a small rural town where math teachers were rare and good ones were nonexistent. I still remember watching Sal Khan's videos on calculus after struggling to get any grip on it from my frustratingly uninterested teacher who was forced into the position after our actual teacher retired. After I saw them I came back with a fire in me because for the first time h…

> The attacks on Khan here personally irked me.

No good deed goes unpunished.

Re: Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

#106
What is with these personal attacks? I don’t understand the insistence that every educational tool must offer some perfect, complete learning experience.

I grew up in India watching the early Sal Khan videos because I preferred them. They complemented school and helped me understand things I’d ignored in class or simply hadn’t been taught well.

You can critique the limits of videos without dismissing teachers who have genuinely helped millions of people learn.

Re: Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

#107

Whenever this topic comes up I feel the urge to point out that not enough people have read Audrey Watter's "Teaching Machines: The History of Personalized Learning" , or her blog. We might stop repeating the same mistakes over and over again if we did. [0] https://direct.mit.edu/books/book/5138/Teaching-MachinesThe-... [1] https://2ndbreakfast.audreywatters.com/

My belief is that Khan Academy is tremendously useful when started at a young age and done consistently. I have been doing it for over 7 years and it was a huge portion of my childhood. Long term, consistent use of KA from a young age builds deep procedural fluency and (this is very IMPORTANT:) self-directed discipline that transform how a student handles complex concepts. Even though some critics correctly note and…

To be clear: I'm not against Khan Academy. I think overald it's great! It's helped tons of children by virtue of making solid learning material available for free on the internet, while also giving children a chance to learn at their own pace and dive into topics they're curious about. I used it on occasion myself as an adult

Also, 3B1B got his start at Khan Academy so that definitely counts for something.

But if we're in the context of classrooms, and discussions of how one might change the roles of teachers using computers, then I'm getting wary. Especially when a lot of money is involved from investors who do not care to study history because it might not fit their desired narrative.

Re: Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> materials that were much better Do you have few examples?

Personally I like books, but there are also many, many lecture videos on YouTube, some of them excellent (though I think they could still be better with bigger production teams and higher budgets). For college-level technical subjects, there are also e.g. many MIT lectures on OCW. If you have a specific topic in mind, I urge you to search around. (Making a long list of my own book/website/video recommendations about…

> For college-level technical subjects, there are also e.g. many MIT lectures on OCW.

There are? I know an OCW course includes "lecture notes" pdfs. Does it have the lectures too?

For example, the course "distributed systems" is available on OCW as 6.824, from spring 2006: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-824-distributed-computer-syste...

MIT has renumbered the course, but it's still around: https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.824/ . Don't be fooled by the URL; it's now 6.5840.

And a series of lectures is available too: https://www.youtube.com/@6.824/videos . They're from spring 2020. They link to the course website for spring 2020, which is great. But it doesn't link to them, and OCW doesn't know about any of this, as far as I can tell. The 6.824 lecture series is pretty hard to discover, too, because it's uploaded by an account dedicated solely to that one course, which isn't related to any other MIT lecture videos.

Re: Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

#109
post #3

Overall, I do agree with the thesis but: > Now… how does Sal Khan want my kid to learn? > Watch a video. I find this a little uncharitable. I learned a lot of math at a young age from Sal Khan's early videos (back when he used to erase by switching to a black pen and scribbling across the entire screen) and, to put it in the author's terms, it served as an easy-to-digest scaffolding on top of which to build a deeper…

I think it is okay.

I have benefited a good deal from Khan Academy, and was quite disappointing to go back and see that they seem even more focused on showing videos than they did 10 years ago.

Re: Why Sal Khan't: On Learning by Making but Teaching by Telling

#110
post #44

Off-topic and may be found rude - I find multiple instances of "Kahn" in the comments. Is it really that difficult to put in the effort to learn the correct spelling of "Khan" specially when it is everywhere in TFA, the post title, and other comments?

A couple of days ago it was Ghandi instead of Gandhi. I understand it's not a big deal. But it's also not a big deal to get the spelling right.

I think it's because these "h"es are silent in (most?) dialects of English, so both spellings would result in the same pronunciation. English doesn't really have a 'kh" /x/ sound, or an unaspirated k, or an "ahn", or a "dh" sound. So Kahn and Khan both get read as /kan/, Gandhi and Ghandi both get read as /gandi/. If anything the "h" just seems to hint that the vowel isn't pronounced /æ/. So folks remember that there is a silent h but not where it is.

Of course many Indian languages have aspirated and unaspirated "d" sounds, for example, and this is also reflected in the English dialet. But most of us English speakers can't hear the difference very well even if we concentrate.

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