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Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

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Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#181

Post by ErroneousBosh »

avhception wrote: post #23

We need reliable, real-world ~20mbit/s for our warehouse scanners, not 382722 theoretical Gbit/s 5cm from the access point. And roaming that works instead of stupid clients clinging to somewhere or being thrown into a reconnect loop when the AP tries to get them to roam. I know this is theoretically possible today. But in the real world, I have inherited the setup, so AP locations are fixed for now, clients are some…

How much data do the scanners really send backwards and forwards?

I feel like a lot of the problems people try to solve with wifi and dozens of access points could be better solved by a 450MHz-ish transceiver up on the roof with a downfire turnstile, and 9600bps radio modems in everything.

I'm going to embroider some red hats, going to put on them "MAKE SLOTTED ALOHA GREAT AGAIN".

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#182

Post by unrented7977 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #40
blfr wrote: post #33

It's the first because we finally caught up on speed. We have it better than I imagined possible. Last year, I saw 1600 Mbit/s from the Internet at a normie's place with an ISP-provided router. Still have a cat 6 cable around the living room but haven't used it in the last 2 years. Not exactly wifi but I routinely get 600-800 Mbit on 5g networks in crowded areas.

It's 2026 and I'm running more cat-6 in my home to all my static devices. My theory is using wires lowers wireless contention, leaving more WiFi for the mobile devices.

Not theory, this is literally just how it works. Only one device can transmit on a WiFi channel at any given moment. A whole lot of the WiFi standard is just dealing with scheduling multiple clients wanting to transmit on the same channel at the same time.

The more clients you have on the same channel, the less bandwidth they all get (effectively). Using wires where you can will improve wireless for everyone else, including your neighbors.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#183

Post by snovv_crash »

martinald wrote: post #153
bjackman wrote: post #41

I recently upgraded from a WiFi 5 router to a WiFi 7 one, and my bandwidth increase was a grand 0% (that's ok though I was actually just sick of my old router's shitty UI!) There is about 10m and a brick wall between my AP and my desk so yeah, a fancy new MCS that can theoretically deliver 25Gbps was just never gonna be useful to me. Also I've worked on (other non-WiFi) 802.11 products where our competitive edge was…

What kind of WiFi 7? (There are a lot that don't have 6GHz support). You should get far better performance on 6GHz, though there are harsh power limits in most countries with various ways to enable it which may complicate things. But if you can get full power on 6GHz it should reach 10m no issues at all, and with 320MHz should be at least twice as fast. If you can also get MLO working (which is not simple) you'd be a…

The brick wall will prevent any and all 6GHz penetration.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#184

Post by ButlerianJihad »

bjackman wrote: post #41

I recently upgraded from a WiFi 5 router to a WiFi 7 one, and my bandwidth increase was a grand 0% (that's ok though I was actually just sick of my old router's shitty UI!) There is about 10m and a brick wall between my AP and my desk so yeah, a fancy new MCS that can theoretically deliver 25Gbps was just never gonna be useful to me. Also I've worked on (other non-WiFi) 802.11 products where our competitive edge was…

> interference motivation

I am not sure what that term means, but perhaps you meant "mitigation"?

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#185

Post by yxhuvud »

tecleandor wrote: post #173
BenjiWiebe wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the major US carriers, since they shut down 3G, VoLTE is the only way calls work. Which meant that a non-VoLTE-but-4G-capable device can no longer make 911 calls. I was using a Samsung S5 running LineageOS for a while with Google voice for calls, but the no 911 thing is one of the main reasons I finally moved to a different phone. The S5 supports VoLTE but only with stock firmware.

Auch, wasn't familiar with that, haven't been in the US for a while. At least around here (EU) is not enabled by default on phones you buy off the shelf. I'm not sure about phones bought from the carrier.

What part of EU doesn't have VoLTE enabled? It is definitely widely used here in Sweden, though they simply forbid phones unable to do emergency calls over WiFi (including existing phones, which forced me to buy a new one. That was very irritating).

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#187

Post by tecleandor »

dotwaffle wrote: post #177
tecleandor wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An additional radio would raise the price of your phone for at least another 200 or 300 dollars. Try to enable VoLTE if available for your operator. That makes the phone use the LTE connection for voice and don't drop the Internet connection while you talk.

Dual SIM Dual Active phones are under £100 in the UK, I imagine under $100 in the US. Dual SIM Dual Standby (two or more SIMs, one radio) is cheaper, less battery, less space, and usually good enough. It's literally a few dollars, not 200-300.

Seems like I forgot to specify "5G" (those radios tend to be expensive) as the original poster was asking for an additional 4G/5G radio.

DSDA in 5G is rare, and I can't reliably find a phone that can do it in EU or US (I can find higher end chipsets that can do it, but phone vendors don't seem to follow through with it). Usually it's 4G+5G or 4G+4G.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#188

Post by tecleandor »

yxhuvud wrote: post #185
tecleandor wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auch, wasn't familiar with that, haven't been in the US for a while. At least around here (EU) is not enabled by default on phones you buy off the shelf. I'm not sure about phones bought from the carrier.

What part of EU doesn't have VoLTE enabled? It is definitely widely used here in Sweden, though they simply forbid phones unable to do emergency calls over WiFi (including existing phones, which forced me to buy a new one. That was very irritating).

To explain myself better: it's readily available on the carriers, but if you just buy an off the shelf phone and put a SIM on it, it won't be enabled automatically (at least in a couple countries I tested it), and you'll need to go to your Android SIM/carrier settings menu and enable it yourself.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#189

Post by yxhuvud »

sandworm101 wrote: post #93

>> But with Wi-Fi 7 reaching a maximum theoretical throughput of 23Gbit per band No. Just no. That speed is only possible when standing at a Nevada test range, in late spring, on a ladder, holding the router above your head, with a black cat sitting on your left shoulder. Any minor change from those parameters and your speeds will be 30% the theoretical maximum ... maybe 50% if you can only find a grey cat.

With real devices I get something like 1.8GBit/s with less than 2 meters between the stuff. Which is far from maximum but who cares, it is still great.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#190

Post by kcb »

gumby wrote: post #99
avhception wrote: post #23

We need reliable, real-world ~20mbit/s for our warehouse scanners, not 382722 theoretical Gbit/s 5cm from the access point. And roaming that works instead of stupid clients clinging to somewhere or being thrown into a reconnect loop when the AP tries to get them to roam. I know this is theoretically possible today. But in the real world, I have inherited the setup, so AP locations are fixed for now, clients are some…

I hadn’t realised that DECT is still in use. It was pretty good in its heyday so glad it’s survived.

I have a DECT headset and I would never go back to Bluetooth. The range, reliability and the quality of modern DECT is great. Just make sure you get one with ultra wide band or similar otherwise you end up with cordless phone quality.
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