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Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

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Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#171

Post by BenjiWiebe »

moffkalast wrote: post #90
euduhdhbene wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently made aware of WiFi HaLow. Official standard, ranges into the hundreds of meters. Speed suffers at long ranges of course, but still respectable (50-100kbs). Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ah

Dead outside the US unfortunately, worse range than regular wifi due to being strangled by lower channel width and ridicolously low power limits. The two bulky HaLowLink routers are the only off the shelf thing with support for it, it's nonexistent as a wifi standard. I was so excited when I discovered it a few months back after struggling for years to set up reliable wifi for outdoor robotics, only to realize we can…

Lower channel width improves range, at the cost of bandwidth.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#172

Post by hulitu »

avhception wrote: post #23

We need reliable, real-world ~20mbit/s for our warehouse scanners, not 382722 theoretical Gbit/s 5cm from the access point. And roaming that works instead of stupid clients clinging to somewhere or being thrown into a reconnect loop when the AP tries to get them to roam. I know this is theoretically possible today. But in the real world, I have inherited the setup, so AP locations are fixed for now, clients are some…

You need to enable automatic updates. /s

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#173

Post by tecleandor »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #167
tecleandor wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, although (at least in my experience) it's not enabled by default. I also learnt about VoWiFi (also called "WiFi Calling") that allows you using WiFi for calling, including when you're abroad or you don't even have phone signal. Support for VoWiFi is a bit weird. Some operators don't allow it outside of your region (for example, the EU), some others will allow it and even bill you as if it were a local call made…

For the major US carriers, since they shut down 3G, VoLTE is the only way calls work. Which meant that a non-VoLTE-but-4G-capable device can no longer make 911 calls. I was using a Samsung S5 running LineageOS for a while with Google voice for calls, but the no 911 thing is one of the main reasons I finally moved to a different phone. The S5 supports VoLTE but only with stock firmware.

Auch, wasn't familiar with that, haven't been in the US for a while. At least around here (EU) is not enabled by default on phones you buy off the shelf. I'm not sure about phones bought from the carrier.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#174

Post by hulitu »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #150
avhception wrote: post #23

We need reliable, real-world ~20mbit/s for our warehouse scanners, not 382722 theoretical Gbit/s 5cm from the access point. And roaming that works instead of stupid clients clinging to somewhere or being thrown into a reconnect loop when the AP tries to get them to roam. I know this is theoretically possible today. But in the real world, I have inherited the setup, so AP locations are fixed for now, clients are some…

Here's another one for you: today I found out that my dual-sim android phone has a single radio that is shared between the two sims. So when you are on a call, the 4G/5G doesn't work on the other sim, likewise, sometimes the the voice sim is unavailable while the other sim engaged with 4G/5G things... which is just stupid. Can't they just add two radios/chips (like many wifi AP's....)? So the whole setup on a consume…

> Can't they just add two radios/chips

no. Too expensive.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#175

Post by ckocagil »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #116

Stop chasing everything. Stop and give me true open source repos for the Wi-Fi chips and drivers so the already well-established community can care for my router for the next 20 years. Force this into the spec. https://wireless.docs.kernel.org/en/latest/en/users/drivers....

Are you talking about router firmware or NIC drivers? There's a slim chance of vendors opening drivers, but firmware is never going to happen.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#176

Post by Avamander »

BlackRabbit1 wrote: post #59
euduhdhbene wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently made aware of WiFi HaLow. Official standard, ranges into the hundreds of meters. Speed suffers at long ranges of course, but still respectable (50-100kbs). Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ah

Difficult within the EU due to ISM limits. Maybe ok for your garden camera where the authorities just don't care. But no go for any industrial usage.

The ETSI document actually does allow higher duty cycle if the radios take anti-interference measures. Some countries unfortunately have "harmonized" but skipped that part. Theoretically only a dumb transceiver (that can utilize only a single channel) has to limit duty cycle that low in those bands.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#177

Post by dotwaffle »

tecleandor wrote: post #169
BatteryMountain wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another one for you: today I found out that my dual-sim android phone has a single radio that is shared between the two sims. So when you are on a call, the 4G/5G doesn't work on the other sim, likewise, sometimes the the voice sim is unavailable while the other sim engaged with 4G/5G things... which is just stupid. Can't they just add two radios/chips (like many wifi AP's....)? So the whole setup on a consume…

An additional radio would raise the price of your phone for at least another 200 or 300 dollars. Try to enable VoLTE if available for your operator. That makes the phone use the LTE connection for voice and don't drop the Internet connection while you talk.

Dual SIM Dual Active phones are under £100 in the UK, I imagine under $100 in the US.

Dual SIM Dual Standby (two or more SIMs, one radio) is cheaper, less battery, less space, and usually good enough. It's literally a few dollars, not 200-300.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#178

Post by dotwaffle »

hulitu wrote: post #174
BatteryMountain wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another one for you: today I found out that my dual-sim android phone has a single radio that is shared between the two sims. So when you are on a call, the 4G/5G doesn't work on the other sim, likewise, sometimes the the voice sim is unavailable while the other sim engaged with 4G/5G things... which is just stupid. Can't they just add two radios/chips (like many wifi AP's....)? So the whole setup on a consume…

> Can't they just add two radios/chips no. Too expensive.

Ironically, the cheapest phones available all tend to have Dual SIM Dual Active, usually because (in Europe at least) many have a second SIM card specifically for international calls.

So yes, it's "too expensive" because it's higher than $0, but it's not "too expensive" as in it would cost a lot.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#179

Post by Avamander »

asymmetric wrote: post #53
abhinavk wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ensure your network has no <WiFi6 devices.

Care to expand?

Legacy clients force APs to accomodate them. Be it by using slower speeds with worse airtime consumption or by just disabling features that (can) make old clients misbehave.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#180

Post by _joel »

mscdex wrote: post #159
_joel wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just upgraded to an 8Gbit package (50 quid a month, rude not to). I'm having to use the provided router as my old one only has a 2.5Gbit port (still provides wifi however). I'd be keen to know of any fairly decent openwrt compatible routers with 10Gbit/wifi 7 at a reasonable price.

For what it's worth there are now mini PCs on AliExpress with SFP+ ports. I have one running OpenWrt along with some inexpensive SFP+ modules that's been working great. Although with my setup, I opted to have an external wifi AP connected to it instead of relying on an internal wifi card.

Yea, good shout. I can keep my existing wifi in place anyway for the time being, I've only got 6e stuff.
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