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Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

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Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#161

Post by PunchyHamster »

agumonkey wrote: post #147
blfr wrote: post #33

It's the first because we finally caught up on speed. We have it better than I imagined possible. Last year, I saw 1600 Mbit/s from the Internet at a normie's place with an ISP-provided router. Still have a cat 6 cable around the living room but haven't used it in the last 2 years. Not exactly wifi but I routinely get 600-800 Mbit on 5g networks in crowded areas.

anybody tried fiber network / hubs at home ?

I put some fiber in the walls just in case but there are not really many cases for this to be worth just yet

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#162

Post by PunchyHamster »

mschuster91 wrote: post #49
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree completely. Higher speeds are a bit pointless for most users. Unless you have an extremely fast NAS, where you need to copy (not stream) data over Wi-Fi, you're unlikely to be anywhere near the current limits. I'm using 802.11ac and see no need for higher speeds.

> Higher speeds are a bit pointless for most users. Higher speeds automatically means less latency and that does matter, especially if you are into stuff like games where every millisecond matters.

old wifi already have sub 1ms latency, it doesn't matter to be any faster than that

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#163

Post by Razengan »

smashed wrote: post #148
Razengan wrote: post #95

Are we not yet at a point where we could have a truly global network that uses multiple technologies and mediums to keep a user always connected? Like seamlessly switching between Wi-Fi, nG, Bluetooth, satellite, pigeons, cans-and-wire.. and still having a stable global address? (that you could change later of course)

It's possible using overlay networks but other than that there has been no progress on that front. The routing table updates would overwhelm the system. Ipv6 does nothing to address device roaming. There is multipath TCP but I have never encountered anything using it. Most improvements on that front has been happening on the application layer, where the app attempts to retain functionality even though the underlying…

There's a great hyper-sci-fi RPG setting called Numenera, set a billion years in the future, that has this cool little concept of a "datasphere", as in analogous to atmosphere, an omnipresent permanent connectivity network..

Shouldn't that be our end goal with all this tech?

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#164

Post by entrope »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #150
avhception wrote: post #23

We need reliable, real-world ~20mbit/s for our warehouse scanners, not 382722 theoretical Gbit/s 5cm from the access point. And roaming that works instead of stupid clients clinging to somewhere or being thrown into a reconnect loop when the AP tries to get them to roam. I know this is theoretically possible today. But in the real world, I have inherited the setup, so AP locations are fixed for now, clients are some…

Here's another one for you: today I found out that my dual-sim android phone has a single radio that is shared between the two sims. So when you are on a call, the 4G/5G doesn't work on the other sim, likewise, sometimes the the voice sim is unavailable while the other sim engaged with 4G/5G things... which is just stupid. Can't they just add two radios/chips (like many wifi AP's....)? So the whole setup on a consume…

I can't speak to your specific setup, but if the two SIMs use different carriers then they will often need to use different frequencies. A phone could in theory use twice as many radios, but the emitted power limits would be the same, so you'd have reduced range or throughout for each (plus additional size, weight and power for the second radio). Access points have different SWaP budgets than phones.

When I travel, I try to use an eSIM that uses a network my home provider partners with. This seems to improve the chance that voice and data over LTE or 5G NR work simultaneously.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#165

Post by tecleandor »

UltraSane wrote: post #157
BatteryMountain wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another one for you: today I found out that my dual-sim android phone has a single radio that is shared between the two sims. So when you are on a call, the 4G/5G doesn't work on the other sim, likewise, sometimes the the voice sim is unavailable while the other sim engaged with 4G/5G things... which is just stupid. Can't they just add two radios/chips (like many wifi AP's....)? So the whole setup on a consume…

Voice is normally done using VoLTE now.

Yep, although (at least in my experience) it's not enabled by default. I also learnt about VoWiFi (also called "WiFi Calling") that allows you using WiFi for calling, including when you're abroad or you don't even have phone signal.

Support for VoWiFi is a bit weird. Some operators don't allow it outside of your region (for example, the EU), some others will allow it and even bill you as if it were a local call made from your country.

Also, although it's in theory made only for working through WiFi, seems like if you have a second SIM or eSIM with a data plan (for example, a travel SIM local for the country you're on vacations) and some combination of phone and/or operators, it can use the second SIM as the data provider for WiFi Calling.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#166

Post by simoncion »

agumonkey wrote: post #147
blfr wrote: post #33

It's the first because we finally caught up on speed. We have it better than I imagined possible. Last year, I saw 1600 Mbit/s from the Internet at a normie's place with an ISP-provided router. Still have a cat 6 cable around the living room but haven't used it in the last 2 years. Not exactly wifi but I routinely get 600-800 Mbit on 5g networks in crowded areas.

anybody tried fiber network / hubs at home ?

I have a 10gbit LAN running over fiber with Mikrotik switches and cheapo Intel NICs. Works fine, and it makes remote disks quite a bit nicer than when they are over 1gbit.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#167

Post by BenjiWiebe »

tecleandor wrote: post #165
UltraSane wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voice is normally done using VoLTE now.

Yep, although (at least in my experience) it's not enabled by default. I also learnt about VoWiFi (also called "WiFi Calling") that allows you using WiFi for calling, including when you're abroad or you don't even have phone signal. Support for VoWiFi is a bit weird. Some operators don't allow it outside of your region (for example, the EU), some others will allow it and even bill you as if it were a local call made…

For the major US carriers, since they shut down 3G, VoLTE is the only way calls work. Which meant that a non-VoLTE-but-4G-capable device can no longer make 911 calls.

I was using a Samsung S5 running LineageOS for a while with Google voice for calls, but the no 911 thing is one of the main reasons I finally moved to a different phone. The S5 supports VoLTE but only with stock firmware.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#168

Post by ckocagil »

>The stated goals of Wi-Fi 8 include a 25% increase in throughput at different signal-to-interference-and-noise ratio (SINR) levels, reduce latency by 25% for the 95th percentile scenarios with latency

So it is getting faster (in both senses) and doing so in scenarios that actually matter.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#169

Post by tecleandor »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #150
avhception wrote: post #23

We need reliable, real-world ~20mbit/s for our warehouse scanners, not 382722 theoretical Gbit/s 5cm from the access point. And roaming that works instead of stupid clients clinging to somewhere or being thrown into a reconnect loop when the AP tries to get them to roam. I know this is theoretically possible today. But in the real world, I have inherited the setup, so AP locations are fixed for now, clients are some…

Here's another one for you: today I found out that my dual-sim android phone has a single radio that is shared between the two sims. So when you are on a call, the 4G/5G doesn't work on the other sim, likewise, sometimes the the voice sim is unavailable while the other sim engaged with 4G/5G things... which is just stupid. Can't they just add two radios/chips (like many wifi AP's....)? So the whole setup on a consume…

An additional radio would raise the price of your phone for at least another 200 or 300 dollars. Try to enable VoLTE if available for your operator. That makes the phone use the LTE connection for voice and don't drop the Internet connection while you talk.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#170

Post by Nifty3929 »

abtinf wrote: post #158

Dumb question: why not drop/deprecate the WiFi standards and adopt 5G/6G across the board (operating on different spectrum depending on configuration)? Naively, I would assume that would save money on the BOM and make devices more flexible. Again, naively, why not build and sell consumer-grade 5G access points/routers? This new WiFi standard is far enough out (2028) that it seems reasonable to fold it into the 6G sta…

How would I connect to my own network? Wifi and cellular solve different problems.
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