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Coconut oil jet fuel matches kerosene's efficiency in engine tests

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Re: Coconut oil jet fuel matches kerosene's efficiency in engine tests

#21

Post by tass »

wronex wrote: post #10

I think this is awesome. Anything we can do to get away from burning fossil fuel is a win in my book. I don’t know about this particular effort, but it seems to me that aviation could really need some big wins in this direction. Last I looked we still run smaller planes on leaded fuel. Crazy.

Leaded is slowly going away, but regulation means these changes take many, many years and dollars to implement and test.

It will be similar (worse?) implementing a new type of fuel for commercial jets, especially when it comes to wide adoption across a majority of countries around the world. Basically you need something which is as least as reliable, clean (I.e., won’t clog/solidify), non corrosive, etc. and remain that way after being mixed with standard jet fuel.

I too want to see alternatives but expect to see more failures than success at this stage.

Re: Coconut oil jet fuel matches kerosene's efficiency in engine tests

#22

Post by zdragnar »

clickety_clack wrote: post #6

Do coconuts grow particularly efficiently? Edit: The US created biofuel subsidies a few years ago and it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. It’s effectively become a wealth transfer to support poor rural American communities, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but there’re probably more effective ways to do that intentionally.

All subsidies are wealth transfers. That's the whole point- to incentivize something that wouldn't otherwise happen at a scale the government deems to be of benefit or necessary.

Biofuels are part of the all-in-one story of renewable energy, especially the transition phase of reducing carbon emissions before we can get to full electrification.

The question of whether or not they are effective in doing so- and whether or not the money for those subsidies would better benefit society elsewhere- is the very same one that skeptics of solar and wind hammer on.

I would much rather see those subsidies go to farmers growing human consumer food, and sending the excess to bioreactors to produce fertilizer and/or methane for power generation. Cheaper groceries make it easier for people to eat more whole foods, after all. Just last week, I found napa cabbage at $3/lb- meaning one head would have been $24. Fresh broccoli and other good veg are also expensive.

The reduction of harm from reduced CO2 by bio-jet-fuel would pale in significance compared to, say, subsidies in regenerative farming practices, or even simply healthy crops.

Re: Coconut oil jet fuel matches kerosene's efficiency in engine tests

#23

Post by mjevans »

zweifuss wrote: post #19
clickety_clack wrote: post #6

Do coconuts grow particularly efficiently? Edit: The US created biofuel subsidies a few years ago and it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. It’s effectively become a wealth transfer to support poor rural American communities, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but there’re probably more effective ways to do that intentionally.

Middle of the road, comparable to Sunflower oil. But they want to utilize waste products and a low energy conversion process.

Is Jet Fuel really the best use of coconut oil? I'd imagine it's far better as a lubricant or ingredient in things more directly adjacent to human rather than mechanical use.

Re: Coconut oil jet fuel matches kerosene's efficiency in engine tests

#24

Post by mortoc »

clickety_clack wrote: post #6

Do coconuts grow particularly efficiently? Edit: The US created biofuel subsidies a few years ago and it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. It’s effectively become a wealth transfer to support poor rural American communities, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but there’re probably more effective ways to do that intentionally.

Are the people against bioengineered produce also be against us working towards super efficient coconuts or some other plant we designed to fill the same role?

Re: Coconut oil jet fuel matches kerosene's efficiency in engine tests

#25

Post by qeternity »

clickety_clack wrote: post #6

Do coconuts grow particularly efficiently? Edit: The US created biofuel subsidies a few years ago and it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. It’s effectively become a wealth transfer to support poor rural American communities, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but there’re probably more effective ways to do that intentionally.

Is it not a bad thing to encourage poor people to continue doing the thing that has apparently made them poor?

It's also very not true that farmers are poor in the US (median household income about 30% greater than general population). This mindset is like a century old.

Re: Coconut oil jet fuel matches kerosene's efficiency in engine tests

#27

Post by 317070 »

clickety_clack wrote: post #6

Do coconuts grow particularly efficiently? Edit: The US created biofuel subsidies a few years ago and it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. It’s effectively become a wealth transfer to support poor rural American communities, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but there’re probably more effective ways to do that intentionally.

> it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact.

In the short term, yes, because they were unnecessarily using carbon energy to grow the fuel.

But if we want to de-fossilise society in the long run, we need solutions for flying and long distance travel. Electric flying seems infeasible at the moment, and people are looking for suitable bio-fuels to make flying carbon neutral. Afaik the maximum planes were allowed to handle up to now, was a 50-50 mix kerosene-biofuel. [0]

Coconuts could be a breakthrough!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_biofuel

Re: Coconut oil jet fuel matches kerosene's efficiency in engine tests

#28

Post by the_sleaze_ »

317070 wrote: post #27
clickety_clack wrote: post #6

Do coconuts grow particularly efficiently? Edit: The US created biofuel subsidies a few years ago and it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. It’s effectively become a wealth transfer to support poor rural American communities, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but there’re probably more effective ways to do that intentionally.

> it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. In the short term, yes, because they were unnecessarily using carbon energy to grow the fuel. But if we want to de-fossilise society in the long run, we need solutions for flying and long distance travel. Electric flying seems infeasible at the moment, and people are looking for suitable bio-fuels to make flying carbon neutral. Afaik the maximum planes…

Saw a recent post about an electric plane - was pretty sweet let me dig it up. $5 worth of fuel!

> https://www.heartaerospace.com/newsroom/heart-aerospace-comp...

Re: Coconut oil jet fuel matches kerosene's efficiency in engine tests

#29

Post by sixtyj »

317070 wrote: post #27
clickety_clack wrote: post #6

Do coconuts grow particularly efficiently? Edit: The US created biofuel subsidies a few years ago and it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. It’s effectively become a wealth transfer to support poor rural American communities, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but there’re probably more effective ways to do that intentionally.

> it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. In the short term, yes, because they were unnecessarily using carbon energy to grow the fuel. But if we want to de-fossilise society in the long run, we need solutions for flying and long distance travel. Electric flying seems infeasible at the moment, and people are looking for suitable bio-fuels to make flying carbon neutral. Afaik the maximum planes…

How many coconuts are on one tree and how many tons of coconuts would be needed to replace kerosene globally?

I am 100% for decarbonization as fast as possible.

BTW Law of Conservation of Energy will be applied to coconut-based energy as well.

Vaclav Smil mentions in his book that we should consume less.

I see so many cheap weekender air tickets… it’s almost impossible to resist the temptation.

Annually 5 billions people travel by plane…

Re: Coconut oil jet fuel matches kerosene's efficiency in engine tests

#30

Post by steve1977 »

317070 wrote: post #27
clickety_clack wrote: post #6

Do coconuts grow particularly efficiently? Edit: The US created biofuel subsidies a few years ago and it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. It’s effectively become a wealth transfer to support poor rural American communities, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but there’re probably more effective ways to do that intentionally.

> it’s led to poor use of land with questionable climate impact. In the short term, yes, because they were unnecessarily using carbon energy to grow the fuel. But if we want to de-fossilise society in the long run, we need solutions for flying and long distance travel. Electric flying seems infeasible at the moment, and people are looking for suitable bio-fuels to make flying carbon neutral. Afaik the maximum planes…

The best solution to flying and long distance travel is to reduce it as much as possible. This means no more travelling for hedonistic (touristic) purposes.

I.e. measures like massive taxation (also for private jets of course).

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