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Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

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Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#961

Post by brailsafe »

nostromo wrote: post #896
epistasis wrote: post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so stupid. It's really hard to understand how such utter moronic behavior even gets proposed. The best comparison I heard for the cultural idiocy is that it's like asking for the US to end SEC football. And ending French language in Canada has about potential benefit for the US as ending college football would have for the Canada: zilch. There's so much stupidity going on in the US right now that voters don't…

Nobody in the US minds that Quebecois speak French. The negotiations are because Canada taxes US cultural exports (movies, etc.) and gives that money directly to their Canadian competitors. It’s perfectly reasonable for any country to ask that their exports not be penalized with taxes, which is what Canada does to many US cultural exports.

> The negotiations are because Canada taxes US cultural exports (movies, etc.) and gives that money directly to their Canadian competitors.

Canada subsidizes U.S film production to incentivise the companies to use Canadian labour. It's the opposite of a tax, but there is a consumer digital services tax that's only been a thing recently.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#962

Post by slashdev »

jmyeet wrote: post #888
bawolff wrote: post #830

As a canadian, i'm so over this drama. They will either trade with us or they won't. If they don't it will be painful - but im happy with the government reciprocating in kind (so we arent being taken andvantage of), and then moving on as best as possible. At some point you have to stop worrying about the things you cannot change. If trump wants a lose-lose deal, so be it.

Unfortunately for Canada, you guys have screwed up. Why? Because you're completely dependent on the US for energy exports. All that oil you dig up and turn the landscape into the Moon for goes out via pipes to the US from where it's refined and/or exported. Canada has almost no oil export infrastructure of its own (meaning pipelines going to ports).

This is true. But it’s more of a pricing power problem. The US can no more rid itself of the dependency on Canadian heavy oil than Canada could on exporting to the US. We’re bound together on that front, and it’s why oil has been exempt from tariffs.

If Canada had the ability to sell that oil on the global market, we’d get a better price for it (if you only have one customer you can sell to, you have little pricing power). Western Canada Select trades at a discount to WTI.

US refineries are built for a mix of heavy and light oil and that’s not practical to change. The US can’t just replace Canada with its own oil or imports from elsewhere.

What about Venezuela? Another potential source of heavy oil? It would take decades of investment and development to bring that up to the point where it produces an extra 4 million barrels a day for export. With the uncertain political environment there, it’s unclear where that would come from.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#963

Post by toomuchtodo »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #864
toomuchtodo wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They still can of course, all they need to do is collectively start selling off their US treasuries. The US is at a highly vulnerable and precarious point with their potential bond market debt spiral situation, and this is a point of leverage that can be exploited to encourage improved behavior from a bully. This capital can then be reallocated into domestic investment to continue to decouple from the US. Very simila…

People don't invest in the US from Europe because they love the US, but rather because investments in Europe are shitty.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/foreign-holdings-us-trea...

https://www.wsj.com/finance/stocks/stock-market-bargains-are...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTiYaWFP59Q

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#964

Post by muddi900 »

LeFantome wrote: post #513
Chyzwar wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That not how politics works. It is much slower and hidden process. EU fast tracked Mercosur and other trade deals. China and Japan is slowly dumping US treasury bills, Canada is in open trade confrontation and is diversifying toward China. Everybody is shifting away from US weapons suppliers. Nobody is willing to help with Iran even on symbolic level.

You are both right. The world capitulates more than it should. But the world is also moving away and building contingencies. The world needs leadership. And Canada is helping with that. I do not think that reciprocal tariffs are actually the answer though. They hurt both sides and the US is not a rational enough actor to respond like you hope they will. The answer is in shifting trade away from the US and isolating t…

I think people disregard how economically massive the US is. China will have to grow it's overall GDP 3 times to get on the same level as US GDP per capita.

US is the world's consumer. If you make something anywhere in the world, US is the "final boss". Because Americans consume so much.

It is not just easy to just do reciprocal tariffs. America does not export all that much stuff.

There is a nuclear option of taxing services, where the US does have a surplus. But that would plunge the global economy into further chaos. Such that the Iran war effects will look quaint.

They can also do something wild like not honoring US IP protections, but that idea is way out there.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#965

Post by blitzar »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #728
arecurrence wrote: post #503

Very interesting speech and Q&A from Prime Minister Carney on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx9ExdjaREg . He provides some details about the last minute demands that the US made including restricting Canada's ability to trade with other countries. He also refers to the US signature as being written in "pencil".

My favourite part was the face he made when he was asked about Lutnick's last minute involvement potentially changing the negotiations. The words were mostly diplomatic. The expression was not.

You mean Jeffery Epstein associate Howard Lutnick?

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#967

Post by sfn42 »

chermi wrote: post #657
hunglee2 wrote: post #413

The world should've collectively recognised what Liberation Day was and responded together, in lock step, and in kind. Instead, the Europeans caved, Japanese caved (PM resigned after doing so), Republic of Korea caved (PM resigned after doing so), India of course caved and so on, shattering any prospect of collective action which might pull the rogue hegemon back into line. Now, the US is simply able to renege or ren…

"Now, the US is simply able to renege or renegotiate the bilateral deals whenever he feels like it, forcing the other party to face down the US by themselves" This won't last. There are consequences for behavior on all scales. If you prove yourself untrustworthy and treacherous, people will treat you as such. International politics don't move very quickly, especially if coordination is required. But it will eventuall…

> renege or renegotiate

Are those different things?

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#968

Post by bystander2026 »

jongjong wrote: post #795

Tariffs are a moral and economic necessity. Every country should have some kind of tariff on foreign goods and services to offset regulatory asymmetries. It's not fair that an entire industry in one country is wiped out and replaced by that of a foreign industry with fewer regulations (and thus lower operational costs and higher margins)... It's bad not only from the business and opportunities perspective, but also f…

This is correct. The are too much noise on this thread.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#970

Post by fifilura »

bystander2026 wrote: post #969

Too much political noises and not enough fact. Why would any country not to have the following: Industrial based Customers based Stop focusing on exporting too much.

Because trade is a benefit for both parties.

And lack of trade takes your economy back decades.

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