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Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

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Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#111

Post by Neikius »

euduhdhbene wrote: post #45
avhception wrote: post #23

We need reliable, real-world ~20mbit/s for our warehouse scanners, not 382722 theoretical Gbit/s 5cm from the access point. And roaming that works instead of stupid clients clinging to somewhere or being thrown into a reconnect loop when the AP tries to get them to roam. I know this is theoretically possible today. But in the real world, I have inherited the setup, so AP locations are fixed for now, clients are some…

I was recently made aware of WiFi HaLow. Official standard, ranges into the hundreds of meters. Speed suffers at long ranges of course, but still respectable (50-100kbs). Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ah

Sounds like it fills the same niche as LoRa. Never heard of it though, thanks.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#112

Post by Neikius »

moffkalast wrote: post #90
euduhdhbene wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently made aware of WiFi HaLow. Official standard, ranges into the hundreds of meters. Speed suffers at long ranges of course, but still respectable (50-100kbs). Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ah

Dead outside the US unfortunately, worse range than regular wifi due to being strangled by lower channel width and ridicolously low power limits. The two bulky HaLowLink routers are the only off the shelf thing with support for it, it's nonexistent as a wifi standard. I was so excited when I discovered it a few months back after struggling for years to set up reliable wifi for outdoor robotics, only to realize we can…

LoRa is not fast enough?

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#113

Post by bzzzt »

gumby wrote: post #99
avhception wrote: post #23

We need reliable, real-world ~20mbit/s for our warehouse scanners, not 382722 theoretical Gbit/s 5cm from the access point. And roaming that works instead of stupid clients clinging to somewhere or being thrown into a reconnect loop when the AP tries to get them to roam. I know this is theoretically possible today. But in the real world, I have inherited the setup, so AP locations are fixed for now, clients are some…

I hadn’t realised that DECT is still in use. It was pretty good in its heyday so glad it’s survived.

There are still landlines in use (although they mostly use VOIP instead of analog phone lines). All cheap cordless phones I know run DECT. It's more than enough speed for speech and more stable than wifi.

The AVM Fritz product line of consumer modem/routers all include a DECT modem for registering extra handsets for voice but they have their own proprietary handsets that support TCP/IP over DECT for things like audio streaming or sending extra media like a caller photo.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#114

Post by greenavocado »

BlackRabbit1 wrote: post #50
greenavocado wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> infrastructure-controlled roaming 802.11 r/k/v exists

That's not controlled, seamless hand-over as we know it from GSM/3G/LTE/5G for 30 years now. We basically miss all data (received stations/signal levels from both sides, Bit Rate errors, etc.) for making roaming decisions and then to softly connect them to an AP you want them to be on. Enterprise WiFi is currently mostly "This is a list of APs you maybe can connect to.. have fun.. if you can connect we pre-seeded the…

So SCTP (multi homing)?

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#116

Post by 1970-01-01 »

Stop chasing everything. Stop and give me true open source repos for the Wi-Fi chips and drivers so the already well-established community can care for my router for the next 20 years. Force this into the spec.

https://wireless.docs.kernel.org/en/latest/en/users/drivers....

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#117

Post by dingaling »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #116

Stop chasing everything. Stop and give me true open source repos for the Wi-Fi chips and drivers so the already well-established community can care for my router for the next 20 years. Force this into the spec. https://wireless.docs.kernel.org/en/latest/en/users/drivers....

Unfortunately ( for the WiFi Alliance ) that doesn't sell new kit.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#118

Post by mschuster91 »

avhception wrote: post #86
mschuster91 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or being thrown into a reconnect loop when the AP tries to get them to roam The AP does not have visibility into what the client actually sees, and no, a coordinator that has knowledge what the APs see isn't that much better. Imagine a situation with two APs and a client being in the middle of the two in a RF-impeded situation (i.e. your typical office building). AP1 may "hear" the client better (i.e. it gets a hig…

I'm no RF expert, and we're not a big company. I wear many hats, from DBA to local WiFi expert. And while there are certainly limits to what can be achieved without dedicated experts, I want to stress how DECT in the very same scenario just delivers unwavering reliable operation without me ever giving a hoot about RF interference or 802.11k or r or any other implementation detail.

> And while there are certainly limits to what can be achieved without dedicated experts, I want to stress how DECT in the very same scenario just delivers unwavering reliable operation without me ever giving a hoot about RF interference or 802.11k or r or any other implementation detail.

DECT is a much, MUCH more old, simple and robust protocol. Modern signal processing tech can get you insanely far there.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#119

Post by Marsymars »

bzzzt wrote: post #113
gumby wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn’t realised that DECT is still in use. It was pretty good in its heyday so glad it’s survived.

There are still landlines in use (although they mostly use VOIP instead of analog phone lines). All cheap cordless phones I know run DECT. It's more than enough speed for speech and more stable than wifi. The AVM Fritz product line of consumer modem/routers all include a DECT modem for registering extra handsets for voice but they have their own proprietary handsets that support TCP/IP over DECT for things like audio…

I've never really liked talking on cellphones and got a grandstream cordless DECT phone that runs over a voip line probably a decade ago. One of my favourite purchases.

Re: Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn't chasing speed

#120

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

> "Wi-Fi 8 is expected to be finalized in 2028"

So we should see mainstream consumer device adaption by 2030 (not much point in having a wi-fi access point that implements pre-finalized Wi-Fi 8 if none of the client devices do) and prices become reasonable maybe by 2032? The tech is cool but it's hard to care about something that far in the future.

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