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To become a better writer, read as much as you can

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Re: To become a better writer, read as much as you can

#151

Post by elif »

Guestmodinfo wrote: post #68
vintagedave wrote: post #63

> Why be a writer if you don’t love reading? Why devote your intellectual and emotional energy to creating a book, when it’s a form you’re not invested in? Why write, when you aren’t steeped in wonder of storytelling? This is the key point, I think. I've seen the same as the author: people who want to be writers but rarely read books. And I don't get it. I recently finished a novel (now shopping around for agents, wh…

Please please suggest me some books where language and style of speaking sentences takes the crown rather than the story being the selling point. I'm tired of hearing about the usual greats and also booker prize ones because they have good characters and good story content or shocking emotionally but are quite bland on the language front because they assume their readers have grade 5 level capacity so the sentences a…

Easy. The turn of the screw by Henry James. Literally anyone who absolutely loves James primarily appreciates his descriptive form.

Another author that comes to mind is Zizek. His books could easily be reduced to a boring 2 page essay, but instead they are taken on a wild ride through cultural and theory and philosophical history and virtually encoded in philosophy jargon in order to absolutely reek of intellectualism. I'm 0% ashamed to admit openly that keeping up with him as I read makes me proud of my brain and attention capacity way more than I actually agree with his specific political philosophy in a work.

Re: To become a better writer, read as much as you can

#152

Post by simonebrunozzi »

I have an even better golden rule: to become a better writer, actually write as much as you can.

A real example.

I read A TON, since I was a kid (I'm close to 50 years old now). I used to write a lot. I even wrote two semi-decent novels, among other things.

I haven't written much in the last 10-12 years.

Now I want to start a little side project, in which I will write a letter to about one hundred people, print it and ship it physically. I have attempted to write the first one a few times, and it's very difficult. I am not used to write anymore.

Write more.

Re: To become a better writer, read as much as you can

#153

Post by andersonl »

mrob wrote: post #135
andersonl wrote: post #118

I think this article is conflating the craft of writing, which is essentially literary ambition and aspiring toward literary fiction, with genre fiction which is focused on plot and story above language that is employed. Writers who aspire towards a nobel or elite critical acclaim certainly must read because their aspiration is to develop a novel and masterful command of their native language. But writers who aspire…

The most influential work of genre fiction (Lord of the Rings) is written in a literary style by a well-read author. How many people have even heard of "Fourth Wing" in comparison?

If we consider best selling, Harry Potter wins multiple times over. HP is wonderful storytelling and world building while providing exceptionally mediocre prose. And yet it's been substantially more successful.

Re: To become a better writer, read as much as you can

#155

Post by cousin_it »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #109
vintagedave wrote: post #63

> Why be a writer if you don’t love reading? Why devote your intellectual and emotional energy to creating a book, when it’s a form you’re not invested in? Why write, when you aren’t steeped in wonder of storytelling? This is the key point, I think. I've seen the same as the author: people who want to be writers but rarely read books. And I don't get it. I recently finished a novel (now shopping around for agents, wh…

As the old quip goes: people don’t want to be writers, they want to have published a book. You can turn this around as well: people don’t want to read, they want to be well read. The difference is “effort and process” versus a status. People want the label, but don’t want to do the work to get there.

Yeah. I've seen the same puzzling thing in game development. People don't seem to want to make good games! They want a hat that says "I made a game". That done, they want a hat that says "my game is successful", so they go on subreddits asking for promotion advice. Honest comparison with existing state of the art is seen as annoying; advancing the state of the art isn't seen as a goal at all.

Re: To become a better writer, read as much as you can

#157

Post by mega_dean »

hrnnnnnn wrote: post #107
chmike wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get it Is it hard to understand that for some people it may be difficult to read ? It might be due to motivation issues, thrust issues, or concentration issues. While at the same time they may have a rich inner imagination or thinking that they would like to share. My impression is that humanity might miss valuable insight by rejecting whatever is not "well written" whatever the reason might be. You may fee…

Imagine instead the post was about people who want to make music but don't listen to it. I literally cannot imagine being a musician who doesn't listen to music.

This isn't a real counterexample, but an interesting case is Bobby McFerrin, who wrote "Don't Worry, Be Happy". He avoided listening to singers for 1-2 years in order to develop his own voice/sound:

"First was the vision, then the technique of working it out. I wanted to find my own way of singing by knowing myself. I knew that if I started listening to other singers, it would take me years to develop. So I shut myself off from other singers for along time."

from page 25 of https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/R%26B-Re...

Re: To become a better writer, read as much as you can

#158

Post by Kinrany »

TechnoBabble199 wrote: post #98
Kinrany wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point about LLMs makes even less sense than drawing conclusions from "in mice" studies

> The point about LLMs makes even less sense than drawing conclusions from "in mice" studies Nah I disagree. Humans learn via patterns so do LLMs. They are not human, they don't actually possess intellect - but there are some isomorphisms that can do cleanly translate. I think this one does. Also, if in mice studies didn't work - we wouldn't use mice for studies - so your example kinda proves my point.

Studies in mice aren't used to confirm something relevant for humans, they're exploratory.

"Learn via patterns" is hopelessly vague. Archival algorithms learn via patterns too.

Re: To become a better writer, read as much as you can

#159

Post by JKCalhoun »

vintagedave wrote: post #63

> Why be a writer if you don’t love reading? Why devote your intellectual and emotional energy to creating a book, when it’s a form you’re not invested in? Why write, when you aren’t steeped in wonder of storytelling? This is the key point, I think. I've seen the same as the author: people who want to be writers but rarely read books. And I don't get it. I recently finished a novel (now shopping around for agents, wh…

I read a little. I suppose my own excuse for not reading more is that I am too often disappointed in the stuff I have read—been recommended to read.

I would however like to write a thing that I would like to read. (If that makes sense.)

I suppose we'll see then if that makes me a shitty writer. (Probably. But that could also be from having not written anything of significant length ever before in my life.)

Re: To become a better writer, read as much as you can

#160

Post by tatjam »

cousin_it wrote: post #155
PaulRobinson wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the old quip goes: people don’t want to be writers, they want to have published a book. You can turn this around as well: people don’t want to read, they want to be well read. The difference is “effort and process” versus a status. People want the label, but don’t want to do the work to get there.

Yeah. I've seen the same puzzling thing in game development. People don't seem to want to make good games! They want a hat that says "I made a game". That done, they want a hat that says "my game is successful", so they go on subreddits asking for promotion advice. Honest comparison with existing state of the art is seen as annoying; advancing the state of the art isn't seen as a goal at all.

I'm a bit of a victim to this mindset. I don't particularly play many video games, except the occasional one that clicks, but love making small game experiences and similar. I find that gamedev programming is very fun and engaging. Nonetheless, I don't think that I have the combination of skills and creativity (nor game knowledge) to make a game as great as those that have clicked for me in the past ;)
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