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Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

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Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#731

Post by QGQBGdeZREunxLe »

samizdis wrote: post #697

The Atlantic has just posted a piece about this [0] in which it argues many points echoed in comments here. Chief among them: > The Trump administration has one big idea about Canada: The U.S. is larger, stronger, and richer than Canada, so Canada must sooner or later surrender to Trump’s demands. That one big idea is wrong. > Yes, Trump can hurt Canada more than Canada can hurt Trump. That part of Trump’s thinking i…

Even with rising economic uncertainty within Canada, the LPC is enjoying ever-growing support amongst the Canadian voting public including amongst conservatives.

Premiers are almost united (excluding Alberta's Danielle Smith) in their support for Carney walking away from trade negotiations.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#732

Post by coderenegade »

chermi wrote: post #665
rayiner wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Tariff is a naughty word because of its proven negative side(main) effects. Not all taxes are equal. Regressive ones suck.

Tariffs are a tax that buys you (at least) three things, all of which are difficult to quantify, and usually overlooked by economists:

1. Security. You make your own bullets. You're able to make and maintain your own military hardware. When another country cuts supply lines in their own self interest, you have options to advocate for yours, either through trade, making it yourself, or, yes, even force.

2. Economic opportunity for your children and grandchildren. And no, not just "factory jobs" as is commonly sneered, but a community of experience and expertise. An engineer that gets to interact with the products they design in that kind of environment is a better engineer. A country that gets to see and interact with the products it makes has a sense of pride and better social cohesion.

3. Social buy-in and consequences for companies. A Chinese car manufacturer doesn't give a shit if cutting costs killed your grandfather. A local company has to, because the executives and workers are all members of the community. I was in Germany during dieselgate, and the sense of disgust at the company was obvious. They felt that.

These things are, imo, important to the health of any country, but they can only really be valued in retrospect. So yeah, tariffs are a tax, but some things are worth paying for even if what's being purchased isn't necessarily obvious or easy to quantify.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#733

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

dzonga wrote: post #480
hunglee2 wrote: post #413

The world should've collectively recognised what Liberation Day was and responded together, in lock step, and in kind. Instead, the Europeans caved, Japanese caved (PM resigned after doing so), Republic of Korea caved (PM resigned after doing so), India of course caved and so on, shattering any prospect of collective action which might pull the rogue hegemon back into line. Now, the US is simply able to renege or ren…

they carved because most of those places want access to the 'yuuuge' US market. politics vs reality. they could correct though by selling US treasuries - but that would make the world economy sneeze which might result in pneumonia.

US treasuries sound risky in a sense that if you accumulate them they become a crisis when you choose to sell.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#734

Post by mthoms »

fatbird wrote: post #493
blitzar wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trade barriers for US goods and services are the trade barriers in the room with us?

In the softwood lumber dispute that's been going on for decades, the US raised (legitimately) the point that in Canada, land is granted by permit to loggers for only nominal fees; in the U.S. loggers have to pay significant amounts for rights to log. This is effectively a gov't subsidy to Canadian loggers by comparison with American loggers, allowing Canadian loggers to sell softwoods at a lower price. This is the di…

Unless you can explain why the American stumpage fees are inherently "correct", this is simply a case of one country having a bigger supply of something and therefore being able to offer it much cheaper. You know... Capitalism working exactly as intended.

Isn't that kind of America's thing?

"No, not like that!"

All the rest of this is designed to distract from the real issue: Americans love Capitalism, except in the rare cases where they don't come out on top. Then everyone else is being mean and unfair.

It's funny. When European governments charge high fees, Americans deride them as socialist and anti-capitalist. When the American government does it (as it does here)? Why, it's the natural order of things! Our fees are the "correct" fees. It's everyone else that's wrong!

Please.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#735

Post by archonis »

edgyquant wrote: post #673
brightball wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that statistics can be manipulated but... https://www.ismworld.org/supply-management-news-and-reports/... > Economic activity in the manufacturing sector expanded in July for the seventh consecutive month, say the nation’s supply executives in the latest ISM® Manufacturing PMI® Report. > The report was issued today by Susan Spence, MBA, Chair of the Institute for Supply Management® (ISM®) Manufacturing Business…

[flagged]

What's your sample size?

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#736

Post by mancerayder »

techteach00 wrote: post #724
cdrnsf wrote: post #586

Everything the current US administration has done has been an unmitigated disaster. Tariffs are taxes. Manufacturing is still declining, not returning and a man who could not run casinos successfully is not going to change that. His economic and foreign policy are dictated entirely based on who flatters him the most. Add to that continued environmental damage, domestic policy dictated by a regressive religious minori…

"regressive religious minority" yes, Israelis and the evangelicals that worship them.

[flagged]

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#737

Post by fifilura »

microtonal wrote: post #168
bhouston wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was totally the right move, if for no other reason than it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run. Unfortunately, Canada (where I live) will feel way more pain from this than the US. I am not sure Trump will have respect for this at all, but the alternative was to put in a permanent trade deal that significant disadvantaged Canada.

I know that this is insanely complex with everybody protecting their own economies, but I think this is where middle powers working together more strongly could help. Imagine that Canada, the EU, and Britain worked together as an economic NATO, where a tariff attack on one is a tariff attack on all. It would hurt the US much more to bully one of these economies.

UK used to have that kind of protection up until a few years ago, but they decided it was not worth it.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#738

Post by khriss »

rayiner wrote: post #655
cdrnsf wrote: post #586

Everything the current US administration has done has been an unmitigated disaster. Tariffs are taxes. Manufacturing is still declining, not returning and a man who could not run casinos successfully is not going to change that. His economic and foreign policy are dictated entirely based on who flatters him the most. Add to that continued environmental damage, domestic policy dictated by a regressive religious minori…

[flagged]

And how many times did Alexander Hamilton apply tariffs to islands inhabited by penguins while specifically exempting Russia and Belarus?

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#739

Post by lobsterthief »

edgyquant wrote: post #673
brightball wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that statistics can be manipulated but... https://www.ismworld.org/supply-management-news-and-reports/... > Economic activity in the manufacturing sector expanded in July for the seventh consecutive month, say the nation’s supply executives in the latest ISM® Manufacturing PMI® Report. > The report was issued today by Susan Spence, MBA, Chair of the Institute for Supply Management® (ISM®) Manufacturing Business…

[flagged]

What’s your sample size? Unless it’s 30+ politically-neutral manufacturing founders, you’re citing anecdotal evidence.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#740

Post by epolanski »

brightball wrote: post #641
cdrnsf wrote: post #586

Everything the current US administration has done has been an unmitigated disaster. Tariffs are taxes. Manufacturing is still declining, not returning and a man who could not run casinos successfully is not going to change that. His economic and foreign policy are dictated entirely based on who flatters him the most. Add to that continued environmental damage, domestic policy dictated by a regressive religious minori…

I get that statistics can be manipulated but... https://www.ismworld.org/supply-management-news-and-reports/... > Economic activity in the manufacturing sector expanded in July for the seventh consecutive month, say the nation’s supply executives in the latest ISM® Manufacturing PMI® Report. > The report was issued today by Susan Spence, MBA, Chair of the Institute for Supply Management® (ISM®) Manufacturing Business…

Manufacturing has never really declined in US, not in absolute terms.

It's simply facing the same fate of agriculture: automation.

Politicians want to sell to people they can bring back manufacturing jobs, but it's not like in china they making cars or batteries or chips by hand. It's all automated everywhere.

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