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There's no reason for software to be slow anymore

danluu.com

471–480 of 533 posts

Re: There's no reason for software to be slow anymore

#471
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should profile that, it is probably hitting the registry, the disk and maybe the network. Try turning off wifi and see if it improves.

i'm on linux

linux without the proprietary nvidia drivers is slower than the proprietary ones. try switching to them if you can. either way nvidia is worse on linux than amd.

Re: There's no reason for software to be slow anymore

#473
post #460

I was having this exact thought after I overheard a conversation on a train, where two developers were discussing the quality of TypeScript being generated by Claude Code, and how they were getting closer and closer to having all of the architectural requirements, test cases, etc. in place to be able to one-shot correct and functional TypeScript. But if you're going to be relying on the LLM to do all the final-stage…

> why would you still target TypeScript, which is entirely a kludge to shoehorn type safety into JS for the benefit of human programmers?

To help the hapless humans who have to fix it, silly!

Re: There's no reason for software to be slow anymore

#474
post #467
post #460

I was having this exact thought after I overheard a conversation on a train, where two developers were discussing the quality of TypeScript being generated by Claude Code, and how they were getting closer and closer to having all of the architectural requirements, test cases, etc. in place to be able to one-shot correct and functional TypeScript. But if you're going to be relying on the LLM to do all the final-stage…

It depends on what software you’re building. The npm ecosystem is huge, hosting is easy, etc. Sure C can do it but it will take longer.

The NPM ecosystem is huge, but it's also full of poorly-coded crap, rife with vulerabilites, subject to supply-chain risks, etc.

And much of its convenience comes from the fact that it has a huge set of off-the-shelf libraries for doing things that are properly part of your higher-level business logic, rather than lower-level foundation code, anyway -- those kinds of libraries are popular because they maximize developer velocity, not because they should be third-party dependencies.

The kind of stuff that makes sense to include as libraries, e.g. code dealing with foundation-level building blocks, like standard encryption algorithms, audio and video codecs, compression, etc. is exactly where the reference implementations and baseline libraries are all in C in the first place.

The point here is that, ultimately, C won't take longer if you're using an LLM. Eventually, you'll get more performant, more secure code targeting the lowest level possible, and mucking around with stuff like NPM is what will both slow you down and produce worse results.

Re: There's no reason for software to be slow anymore

#475
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bro, what the fuck do you think I’m doing? Do you think I don’t know about spec driven development? What is the most complicated thing you’ve built with LM agents? Have you done it with a single spec? How novel was it? This comment is so laughably “you’re holding it wrong” I can’t respond to you seriously. > If you instead spend a day writing a proper specification, then ask the agent to spend a week implementing tha…

> Bro, what the fuck do you think I’m doing? Do you think I don’t know about spec driven development? Bro, I don't know you, and have no idea what you do, except for the parts you share in your comment, like talking to a LLM :) If you say "if you ask an agent to write a compiler" and don't expand on that, I'll take your word for it. I'm glad you got a laugh, and didn't take it so serious :) Not entirely sure why you…

I'm still interested in your claim:

> If you instead spend a day writing a proper specification, then ask the agent to spend a week implementing that, you'll need zero tools and skills afterwards to clean it up, because there won't be any misunderstandings, assumptions or other things, just code fulfilling what the specification says.

Are you claiming that you reliably get good software out of agents using this process?

My experiential claim is that I've followed this process for complex pieces of software (and, often, taking significantly longer than a day -- more like several weeks, as if I was writing an academic paper) and they still get it wrong ... even with an "academic paper level spec"

Models: only the best, Fable 5 max, Sol 5.6 max, yada yada -- I'm not convinced this process works for "serious endeavors" (for instance: let's build a novel accelerator compiler or let's build a new incremental linker) where "serious" here means "something where I'll likely be spending multiple weeks working on it"

Re: There's no reason for software to be slow anymore

#476
post #463
post #460

I was having this exact thought after I overheard a conversation on a train, where two developers were discussing the quality of TypeScript being generated by Claude Code, and how they were getting closer and closer to having all of the architectural requirements, test cases, etc. in place to be able to one-shot correct and functional TypeScript. But if you're going to be relying on the LLM to do all the final-stage…

One obvious reason to have an LLM output a high level language even if you are never going to read the code is because it will require fewer output tokens and therefore be cheaper.

It's not immediately clear to me why having an LLM output code in JS or Python should inherently consume more tokens than C or assembly. I'd expect token usage to correlate with the complexity of the algorithm being implemented, not with what specific language syntax it's being implemented in.

But either way, token consumption is only a relevant concern if you still expect to be using SaaS LLMs by the time you're ready to have them target lower-level code for you.

Re: There's no reason for software to be slow anymore

#478
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bro, what the fuck do you think I’m doing? Do you think I don’t know about spec driven development? What is the most complicated thing you’ve built with LM agents? Have you done it with a single spec? How novel was it? This comment is so laughably “you’re holding it wrong” I can’t respond to you seriously. > If you instead spend a day writing a proper specification, then ask the agent to spend a week implementing tha…

> Bro, what the fuck do you think I’m doing? Do you think I don’t know about spec driven development? Bro, I don't know you, and have no idea what you do, except for the parts you share in your comment, like talking to a LLM :) If you say "if you ask an agent to write a compiler" and don't expand on that, I'll take your word for it. I'm glad you got a laugh, and didn't take it so serious :) Not entirely sure why you…

Sorry for defensiveness: no, I know what I'm doing, and I'm careful to move with understanding.

I don't believe the problem is "ah, you didn't write the spec clearly enough" -- which is why I'm asking about your own experiences.

Re: There's no reason for software to be slow anymore

#479
post #44

One of the biggest causes of slowness is just waiting for web requests. The fact that so much software is either online or built using the same stack even if it isn't, puts all that software in this blocked/waiting state constantly while using it. Anyone not in the US feels this even more since so much online is US hosted, 300ms for every little interaction adds up quick. If your software has the affordance of a wait…

Unfortunately, you either put all the commercially interesting bits on your own server and let your customers eat the latency, or you ship it to the edge and let piracy decimate your profits. I don't think there is any technical way out of this, and probably not any reasonable legal ways.

and here we are ... capitalism

Re: There's no reason for software to be slow anymore

#480
post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One obvious reason to have an LLM output a high level language even if you are never going to read the code is because it will require fewer output tokens and therefore be cheaper.

If LLM-generated code continues the human pattern of having roughly the same rate of bugs/LOC regardless of language, then I also expect LLM-generated code in high-level languages to be less buggy.

But why would we expect LLMs to continue that pattern over time?
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