Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: If you dislike AI, why don't you prove it?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

1–10 of 11 posts

Ask HN: If you dislike AI, why don't you prove it?

#1

Post by SuboptimalEng »

I've seen so many people who absolutely hate AI, and want AI companies to fail, but then 2 seconds later, open up the coding tool made by frontier labs and willingly hand them money.

Just recently convinced one of them to move away from the frontier lab lock-in to OpenCode and switch between models. Not saying they need to switch to non-frontier models immediately, but this approach lets them easily switch to open source when the time is right.

Why don't more people do this? And shouldn't companies that use AI heavily also suggest this approach?

To be clear, I like AI, and use it all the time, but I use it in a way that allows me to easily switch models and not get locked-in.

Re: Ask HN: If you dislike AI, why don't you prove it?

#4

Post by toomuchtodo »

“If you don’t believe in God, prove he doesn’t exist.”

The burden of proof lies with the proponents. AI is useful, it’s just not going to materially change the world outside of a few domains it is very well suited for or be worth what folks are hoping it is. On prem self hosted solutions are certainly a great way to protect the value the capability can provide for consumers of it, versus having to live through constant churn in the marketplace for companies chasing quick economic returns before the capital bubble pops.

Re: Ask HN: If you dislike AI, why don't you prove it?

#5

Post by SuboptimalEng »

newsomix9xl wrote: post #3

AT&T is already locking in open source to save money. Not sure how using open source AI means "hating AI and proving it". Are you implying open source is like an economic boycott?

Exactly. Be prepared to switch companies/models at moments notice.

I mean, if someone truly disliked AI, the only natural course would be to ensure that they can switch to open source and not willingly give money + data to the frontier labs.

Re: Ask HN: If you dislike AI, why don't you prove it?

#6

Post by SuboptimalEng »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

“If you don’t believe in God, prove he doesn’t exist.” The burden of proof lies with the proponents. AI is useful, it’s just not going to materially change the world outside of a few domains it is very well suited for or be worth what folks are hoping it is. On prem self hosted solutions are certainly a great way to protect the value the capability can provide for consumers of it, versus having to live through consta…

I see you didn't read the description under the title :)

Re: Ask HN: If you dislike AI, why don't you prove it?

#7

Post by toomuchtodo »

SuboptimalEng wrote: post #6
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

“If you don’t believe in God, prove he doesn’t exist.” The burden of proof lies with the proponents. AI is useful, it’s just not going to materially change the world outside of a few domains it is very well suited for or be worth what folks are hoping it is. On prem self hosted solutions are certainly a great way to protect the value the capability can provide for consumers of it, versus having to live through consta…

I see you didn't read the description under the title :)

I think you’re asking the wrong questions, which you’ve somewhat tried to merge together, and so I answered the more optimal question.

Does AI have value? Yes. Is it smart to maintain optionality for using it? Yes. Is it rational for folks to hate the AI vendors grifting the capital market frenzy and look forward to them potentially failing? Yes. Is it worth trillions of dollars? No.

Re: Ask HN: If you dislike AI, why don't you prove it?

#8

Post by newsomix9xl »

SuboptimalEng wrote: post #5
newsomix9xl wrote: post #3

AT&T is already locking in open source to save money. Not sure how using open source AI means "hating AI and proving it". Are you implying open source is like an economic boycott?

Exactly. Be prepared to switch companies/models at moments notice. I mean, if someone truly disliked AI, the only natural course would be to ensure that they can switch to open source and not willingly give money + data to the frontier labs.

Well... I'm not sure that's how boycotts work.

What if open source is like radio or YouTube acting as a free ad for a product that still has commercial value in other ways?

And if the OSS product doesn't "kill off" its competition it may simply appeal to a lower cost or price sensitive segment.

Once students learn the AI on free models they graduate to paid versions.

A boycott, "for the AI haters" would need to be against all AI, free or not, maybe?

Re: Ask HN: If you dislike AI, why don't you prove it?

#9

Post by bigyabai »

newsomix9xl wrote: post #8
SuboptimalEng wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Be prepared to switch companies/models at moments notice. I mean, if someone truly disliked AI, the only natural course would be to ensure that they can switch to open source and not willingly give money + data to the frontier labs.

Well... I'm not sure that's how boycotts work. What if open source is like radio or YouTube acting as a free ad for a product that still has commercial value in other ways? And if the OSS product doesn't "kill off" its competition it may simply appeal to a lower cost or price sensitive segment. Once students learn the AI on free models they graduate to paid versions. A boycott, "for the AI haters" would need to be ag…

Boycotts can absolutely mean looking for an equivalent alternative somewhere else. If you think the mainstream is unsustainable, there's nothing wrong with supporting an alternative business model.

OpenAI and Anthropic have billions of dollars in outstanding debt, and neither Fable nor Sol is pulling them out of the red. As the gap between Chinese and American benchmarks closes, it seems like the safest route is to let America's frontier labs default on their debt. The absolute worst-case scenario would be nationalizing America's labs and socializing the losses from their failure to compete.

Re: Ask HN: If you dislike AI, why don't you prove it?

#10

Post by serf »

"dislike ai? prove so by using an alternative ai."

I don't think this train is going to stop, but to pretend that the anti-AI proponents are suggesting moving away from frontier labs and into open-source is short-selling their desires; these people want literal bans, arms exclusions, and penalties for use.

Post reply on HN