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Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

nytimes.com

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Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#831

Post by inigyou »

spl757 wrote: post #777
usern20260720 wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not a country governed by the rule of the law

The US is currently governed by a dictator propped up by an oligarchy that can only do that because of the Citizens United supreme court decision. Until Citizens United is mitigated, and that appears to be starting to happen as states make laws that state you can't be on the ballot in their state if you take large, anonymous campaign donations from people who will want, and get, a return on their investment. Hawaii i…

Citizens United is a scapegoat here. The people genuinely want what they voted for.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#832

Post by dotBen »

Zak wrote: post #189

For exactly the border search scenario, I wish smartphones could be imaged and restored as easily as PCs. Imagine booting the phone from a flash drive, making an encrypted image of the phone on said drive, and writing a fresh OS before reaching the border. There's no deception required to protect sensitive data or avoid the seizure of an expensive phone. Consent to unlocking the phone, refuse to unlock the drive. The…

Your setup doesn't really work.

At the border you have the same right to refuse to provide the pin/password on boot of your otherwise encrypted phone as you do to refuse to provide the key for an encrypted USB. (That right differs slightly depending on whether you are a US citizen or not).

What the subject in question of this new story did was cause the border official to inadvertently destroy the evidence on the phone and therefore indirectly destroyed the evidence himself.

(I'm not making a commentary as to whether or not it's a valid charge and criticism, or not. I'm just saying that's the material difference between your scenario and the original scenario)

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#833

Post by inigyou »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #807
fn-mote wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What relevance does that have here, though? It is a moral statement, not a law. The poster is arguing that the US is behaving in an immoral manner. The basis for their argument is the Declaration of Human Rights.

> > What relevance does that have here, though? > It is a moral statement, not a law. How do you figure that? Does the UN define morality for all peoples in the world? Evidently not. What moral weight is added to some text if some governments of some countries have voted for it? Not even the votes of the majority one people group in their national home define morality, so the votes of the UN General Assembly definite…

It doesn't define it, it discovers it. The UN is where countries find their common ground. If they have none, though, the UN can't impose any.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#834

Post by inigyou »

encom wrote: post #819
raluk wrote: post #724

From Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) accepted by the United Nations General Assembly on 10 December 1948 -------- Article 12 No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-de…

>arbitrary Border searches aren't arbitrary. Sure, in the sense you may or may not get searched, but not in the sense that cops come and turn over your house for no reason. Crossing the border, you know some fraction of travellers will get searched, and that the government does so lawfully. Antagonising law enforcement in this situation is not a smart move, no matter how righteous you feel it is, unless you're doing…

What fraction of travellers get their phones "randomly" searched for child porn specifically, as in this case?

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#835

Post by DeluluDon »

mort96 wrote: post #749
astrobe_ wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. People here imagining workarounds based on automatic wipe, encryption, etc. should rather acknowledge that their country is slowly drifting to a fascist state. Your tech tricks are childish. Act like adults. Take responsibility, make decisions, take action, gather support.

I'm not in the US, but say I was. I'm fully on board that the country is slowly (or not so slowly) drifting into becoming a fascist state. Say I needed to leave the country for some important reason and come back. Say I didn't want my phone searched. What should I do? What amount of taking responsibility, making decisions, taking action and gathering support is gonna help in that situation? Technological workarounds…

If you want to beat fascism, use the fascists to beat it; not angry crying college kids who are openly loyal to Stalin.

That stunt ten years ago failed for a reason.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#836

Post by talon8635 »

Zak wrote: post #189

For exactly the border search scenario, I wish smartphones could be imaged and restored as easily as PCs. Imagine booting the phone from a flash drive, making an encrypted image of the phone on said drive, and writing a fresh OS before reaching the border. There's no deception required to protect sensitive data or avoid the seizure of an expensive phone. Consent to unlocking the phone, refuse to unlock the drive. The…

So, how easy is this today on computers? If I have an Ubuntu 26.04 machine running, I can easily image the entire thing, completely wipe the machine, then reinstall from a flash drive and it behaves as if nothing happened?

This isn’t my territory, so excuse my ignorance, but I’d love to know how

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#837

Post by inigyou »

_heimdall wrote: post #228
Zak wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a half-truth. In a full banana republic, technical compliance with the law will not prevent consequences for failing to do what the authorities want. In a jurisdiction with perfect rule of law, it always will. The USA is somewhere in between. One of the laws that's enforced pretty well in the USA is the protection against unreasonable search. Most of the time, a search requires showing a judge evidence that t…

Unreasonable search is always under attack though. There are many instances today of cops forcibly entering a home claiming nothing more than a welfare check, or "we received a call." Edit to add that its also more difficult than it should be to protect and exercise the right against unreasonable search. If a cop knocks on your door its a consent-based interaction. You can simply not respond, but if you do happen to…

That's why they said it's in between. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#838

Post by talon8635 »

az226 wrote: post #539
gblargg wrote: post #531

The decoy passcode feature should boot into a separate partition that looks like a normal phone setup, and during that time quietly erase the user's actual data. They would never have known if it worked like this.

Probably, but it will be more valuable for society for him to be tried and found not guilty, setting a legal precedent.

Dollars to donuts the guys walks, as he should

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#839

Post by inigyou »

Vegenoid wrote: post #328
Zak wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a half-truth. In a full banana republic, technical compliance with the law will not prevent consequences for failing to do what the authorities want. In a jurisdiction with perfect rule of law, it always will. The USA is somewhere in between. One of the laws that's enforced pretty well in the USA is the protection against unreasonable search. Most of the time, a search requires showing a judge evidence that t…

Agree with the thrust of your comment, but I had to comment on this: > In a full banana republic, technical compliance with the law will not prevent consequences for failing to do what the authorities want. In a jurisdiction with perfect rule of law, it always will. I think you may be misunderstanding that many laws, even in fair, just societies, are intentionally designed to be flexible. The real world is so variabl…

In a non-rule-of-law country though, they don't even try.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#840

Post by chrisjj »

solid_fuel wrote: post #199
Zak wrote: post #189

For exactly the border search scenario, I wish smartphones could be imaged and restored as easily as PCs. Imagine booting the phone from a flash drive, making an encrypted image of the phone on said drive, and writing a fresh OS before reaching the border. There's no deception required to protect sensitive data or avoid the seizure of an expensive phone. Consent to unlocking the phone, refuse to unlock the drive. The…

It may be fun to fantasize about these things some times, but there is no technical solution to tyranny. Laws are not like code, intent matters. Ultimately if the intent is that the government wants to see your private data, hiding it in any way will be charged - it doesn't matter if you jump through hoops to avoid this specific instance.

> Ultimately if the intent is that the government wants to see your private data, hiding it in any way will be charged

Inc. hiding by leaving it your home country?

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