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Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

nytimes.com

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Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#711

Post by hardbass »

ericmay wrote: post #298
joenot443 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you accept the US has entered its East Germany / late 20th century Soviet era -- except of course with 1000x more invasive and effective surveillance tech. I'm pretty optimistic that after the next general America will be ready to give up on the extremity of late turn over a new leaf. I fully expect a new president to be ushered in, whether R or D, and for some level of normalcy to start creeping back. The Sovie…

Your day to day is still pretty much normal. If you turned off the news and never read about Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data [1] you'd just in your head remember there are tens of millions of folks flying, going through customs and border security and all that with 0 issues. What you wrote I think regarding the decade of silliness precisely supports the point, in my opinion. [1] I'm not defending the b…

Its the same in Russia. Ignore the news go through life, don't say anything about the government. Once in a while people will fall down from windows and die of radiation poisoning of course but thats ignorable.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#712

Post by cyberlurker »

dcow wrote: post #704

If I have a device that wipes user data every 6 hours if the pin is not entered, and then I am investigated and refuse to speak the pin since I can’t be compelled, and so the 6 hours pass and the device wipes itself, what is that considered?

Whatever they want to charge you with.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#713

Post by raverbashing »

seanhunter wrote: post #677
Animats wrote: post #659

Legal question: if you had whole-disk encryption, and the duress password just zeroized the decryption key, would that be "destroying evidence?" Especially if there was a recovery possible but not instantly available, such as a Yubikey in a safe deposit box in a bank. That would take a subpoena to get, and there is an opportunity to challenge the subpoena in court first. Not instantly at the border. Something like th…

If you want actual legal advice pay for an actual lawyer. You aren’t going to get it asking a bunch of randoms on a tech forum. Since we’re techies we tend to think about technological nuances and have a certain literal frame of mind (eg “They can’t make it illegal for me to just type the wrong pin” is the type of thinking I’m talking about here) whereas in law weird precedents and your intent really matter so you re…

100% this

People here thinks in technicalities and what if, and while technicalities apply in legal cases, they're not like a lot of people here think they work (quite the contrary!)

This is not "well if the gov had a quantum computer they could decode" this is not how the legal world decided things.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#714

Post by epolanski »

gslepak wrote: post #652
az226 wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably, but it will be more valuable for society for him to be tried and found not guilty, setting a legal precedent.

It turns out there already is a legal precedent for this. It's called the 4th Amendment: > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seiz…

"unreasonable" does a lot of heavy lifting here.

And unreasonable is open to interpretation.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#715

Post by tobylane »

KingMob wrote: post #710
Taek wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do like the idea of forcing due process to access an encryption key. I'm not sure if that idea is compatible with current law, but it seems just at the very least.

IANAL, but I understand that part of the problem is, prior to official admission to the US, you have fewer rights even if you're a US citizen.

Also not a lawyer, but some of that applies to anyone within 100 miles of a border, a coastline.

This isn't the case, but if that rule also applied to airports, then I wonder what portion of the population is safe.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#717

Post by lisper »

otterley wrote: post #697
seanhunter wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want actual legal advice pay for an actual lawyer. You aren’t going to get it asking a bunch of randoms on a tech forum. Since we’re techies we tend to think about technological nuances and have a certain literal frame of mind (eg “They can’t make it illegal for me to just type the wrong pin” is the type of thinking I’m talking about here) whereas in law weird precedents and your intent really matter so you re…

I am a lawyer (this is not legal advice) and agree with the main thrust of this comment. The law is not “hackable.” Ultimately people are making decisions about guilt and punishment. And judges really, really don’t take kindly to defendants who think they’re trying to outsmart the court.

> The law is not “hackable.”

It absolutely is. The rich and powerful do it all the time.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#718

Post by N19PEDL2 »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #111

All Archive pages, when accessed from Italy, now are blocked by the Government: "PAGINA INTERDETTA DAL CENTRO NAZIONALE PER IL CONTRASTO DELLA PEDOPORNOGRAFIA ONLINE (C.N.C.P.O.)" “PAGE BLOCKED BY THE NATIONAL CENTER FOR COMBATING ONLINE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY (C.N.C.P.O.)” Oh, we live in an interesting age.

I’m in Italy now and I can open the Archive page with the article.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#719

Post by blurbleblurble »

otterley wrote: post #697
seanhunter wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want actual legal advice pay for an actual lawyer. You aren’t going to get it asking a bunch of randoms on a tech forum. Since we’re techies we tend to think about technological nuances and have a certain literal frame of mind (eg “They can’t make it illegal for me to just type the wrong pin” is the type of thinking I’m talking about here) whereas in law weird precedents and your intent really matter so you re…

I am a lawyer (this is not legal advice) and agree with the main thrust of this comment. The law is not “hackable.” Ultimately people are making decisions about guilt and punishment. And judges really, really don’t take kindly to defendants who think they’re trying to outsmart the court.

If the law isn't hackable what do you call what these billionaires and religious fundamentalists are doing to it right now?

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#720

Post by blurbleblurble »

gpt5 wrote: post #657
gslepak wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out there already is a legal precedent for this. It's called the 4th Amendment: > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seiz…

I'm sorry, but the Fourth Amendment does not protect against the intentional destruction of evidence. He could have refused search without a warrant, intentionally destroying evidence is a different legal matter.

Evidence of what?
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