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Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

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Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#421

Post by steveBK123 »

torginus wrote: post #256
annzabelle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework), and I let that label stick with me for far too long. I took some pride in how I could get the top score in a class without studying, and didn't realize that studying itself was a useful skill. I let this whole mindset drag me down through undergrad (especially once I hit the point where I really ought to have studied), an…

> I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework), and I let that label stick with me for far too long I just never understood why the secondary education system is set up to make smart and lazy people succeed without effort while the hardworking, but less gifted kids struggle. It just gives you an impression that life is much easier than it is, and you can BS your way…

> I just never understood why the secondary education system is set up to make smart and lazy people succeed without effort while the hardworking, but less gifted kids struggle.

I think it's just as simple as its designed for the average case not the extremities. If it's designed for any extremity, it's to ensure the least bad outcome for the bottom 25%. If you're doing well you are not a problem as far as most schools are concerned.

Unfortunately "smart but lazy" types kind of fall through the cracks. For me "smart but lazy" was more being smart enough to understand the rewards in the system, but not smart enough/having context for the long term rewards.

In a lot of ways I saw life as a game, and had no one around me who could explain the higher level games of elite school admissions/job funnel/etc.

In the end I don't know if my life would have been drastically better if I'd gone to MIT/Carnegie Mellon instead of a "a top 25 engineering program". I'd have had more options for sure.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#422

Post by Xirdus »

dahart wrote: post #413
Xirdus wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, people who do IQ tests a lot score better. Sure, you can claim IQ test solving skill is not the same as intelligence - but then why are you measuring intelligence with IQ tests?

I’m not measuring with IQ tests nor defending the use of IQ tests, the authors of the article implicitly accepted them as a valid measure or proxy for intelligence, and implicitly assumed that happiness surveys should reflect proportional IQ scores. That is a bad assumption given that IQ scores do not measure absolute intelligence and they have an unknown scale factor at a minimum.

Well, you made the arguably far less substantiated claim that intelligence is a physical attribute and thus bounded to +/-20% range for most of the population... And that it can't be trained, despite all the evidence to contrary. If you're no longer interested defending that position, that's okay.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#423

Post by mrguyorama »

xpct wrote: post #183
HDBaseT wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like some gatekeeping egoistical hi-ground. I refuse to believe the average person here is any more intelligent than the average person on the street.

I don't think it's egoistical. I understand it's often uncomfortable to compare people by their intelligence, but by many measures of 'smart', people here have it, more often than not.

None of us took a test to be here.

There's zero filter that could cause this effect.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#424

Post by dahart »

Xirdus wrote: post #422
dahart wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not measuring with IQ tests nor defending the use of IQ tests, the authors of the article implicitly accepted them as a valid measure or proxy for intelligence, and implicitly assumed that happiness surveys should reflect proportional IQ scores. That is a bad assumption given that IQ scores do not measure absolute intelligence and they have an unknown scale factor at a minimum.

Well, you made the arguably far less substantiated claim that intelligence is a physical attribute and thus bounded to +/-20% range for most of the population... And that it can't be trained, despite all the evidence to contrary. If you're no longer interested defending that position, that's okay.

Speaking of unsubstantiated claims… what evidence is there that intelligence can be trained? You’re confusing intelligence with IQ tests. I made no such claim that intelligence is bounded to 20%, you seem to have misunderstood. I pointed out the fact that IQ tests are by design not tied to nor proportional to actual intellectual capacity. If you disagree, maybe you can provide some relevant information? So far your objections have been either irrelevant or factually incorrect.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#425

Post by AlEzlive »

Good question. For me the problem is complex. It is not only about self feelings, the educational system and our society is a part of it...kids are growing up with "facts" that good results and adults high income make happiness...and often the essential is forgotten!

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#427

Post by annzabelle »

mrguyorama wrote: post #420
annzabelle wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did take a one off course at a local college a couple years back and was able to do well (had a 95% average all semester) and get all my homework done. It was, however, a subject I found fascinating. On the other hand, my work performance severely suffered that semester and I got my first poor performance review. Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that stimulant ADHD medication isn't for me. It worked well…

Welbutrin, while having some sort of stimulant effect, and often prescribed for ADHD, is not at all the same as real stimulant medications. It often helps people with ADHD because they have been prescribed this almost-stimulant to anxiety or depression (often caused directly or indirectly by ADHD symptoms and life), and it makes them better, because it's finally treating an actual cause rather than a downstream effec…

I have tried a wide variety of stimulant ADHD medication over the years, but I developed bipolar disorder in my late teens and it just doesn't work the same ever since. I haven't made it more than a couple months on any stimulant med without discontinuing it since then. Let's just say that "elevated mood" is no longer a selling point.

Strattera really did work well for me but my doc won't let me take both Strattera and Wellbutrin, and the depression is a much more pressing concern than focus.

I'm also very internationally mobile at this point, and it's much easier to get a walk in GP in a foreign country to refill Wellbutrin/Zyban than Concerta.

Those are all "me" problems - I definitely suggest everybody who gets an ADHD diagnosis does full trials of some kind of extended release adderall variant and an extended release ritalin variant at some point.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#428

Post by annzabelle »

darkwater wrote: post #364
annzabelle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework), and I let that label stick with me for far too long. I took some pride in how I could get the top score in a class without studying, and didn't realize that studying itself was a useful skill. I let this whole mindset drag me down through undergrad (especially once I hit the point where I really ought to have studied), an…

Given the amount of replies you are getting, I think you are not alone. In fact, I was the same kind of kid as well and really, what I regret more is not learning to study, which made me a college drop-out. But that's it. I'm pretty happy and satisfied with how life turned out to be for me, but I totally understand your position. In my case I have a daughter that's showing already the same signs I had when I was her…

The miserable bit is more past tense. Back in college I desperately wanted to have the academic success that my friends were having but I had never built that groundwork of organizational habits and consistency. I remember not doing any of the homework for my measure theory course, and getting an uncurved 50% on the midterm. I went into the professor's office hours to ask if I needed to drop the course, and he told me I had actually gotten a B and I was above the class average. There was this deep sense that I could've been a star student if I could just get my shit together.

Nowadays I'm generally happy and living a great life in a New Zealand mountain town. But, whenever I talk to anybody back home who's more academically successful, I really have this jealousy and I tell myself that I could've done that if I'd just tried. It's this combo of ego and self hate that's really toxic.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#429

Post by annzabelle »

eurekin wrote: post #239
annzabelle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework), and I let that label stick with me for far too long. I took some pride in how I could get the top score in a class without studying, and didn't realize that studying itself was a useful skill. I let this whole mindset drag me down through undergrad (especially once I hit the point where I really ought to have studied), an…

Have you ever gotten an IQ test?

Yes, my mom has never told me the score, but it led to me being put in gifted classes. I took the SAT at 12 and did well enough to make JHU CTY's SET program.

So in terms of raw brainpower it's there, but I've never really been able to apply it consistently for whatever reason and have ended up very average. Still haven't really come to terms with that in my late 20s.

I've got a perfectly good life but I have this vague "what if" about if I had applied myself more.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#430

Post by RickJWagner »

fsckboy wrote: post #164
RickJWagner wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny you picked 160. Buffett famously said “You don’t need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beats the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential” Buffett said it in the book, “Warren Buffett Speaks.” He also said if you do have an IQ of 160, you might as well give away 30 points, they’re not going to help you be a better investor. Maybe he’s wrong, but at this tim…

> It’s funny you picked 160. no, it's not anything like a coincidence or a quote of Buffet. People always say "160" as the example number because the Stanford-Binet and Wechsler series IQ tests are among the most commonly used and they have a maximum score of 160. That alone is not enough, you also need to know the std dev is 15 or 16. Therefore, 160 is 4 sd's above the mean which, regardless of the thing you are mea…

Interesting.

Per Google, the current world’s highest IQ belongs to Younghun Kim, with 276. That’s disputed, of course.

Next up is Terence Tao with 230.

I guess there isn’t a single standard.

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