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Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

nytimes.com

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Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#441

Post by watwut »

psunavy03 wrote: post #134
jfengel wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original text is basically useless. They're more like a mission statement rather than directives. They set up broad aspirations, but the implementation has to be aggregated over literally millions of pages of judicial decisions. Even lawyers with extremely different ideologies will give you convergent answers in a lot of cases, even when those answers conflict with an apparently obvious reading of the original te…

> None of those words what you think they mean. And fixing that requires basically throwing out the entire system of American jurisprudence. Which would be fine with me, to be honest. The Constitution is written in plain English. And for the most part, Supreme Court decisions are written in plain English that any reasonably literate US citizen can understand. Yes, the law has technicalities and terms of art just like…

Plain language interpretation of constitution is at odds with plain language interpretation of suprem court decisions.

And practical implementation of it all, the rights that you can actual force to have are the third thing.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#442

Post by kccqzy »

trollbridge wrote: post #163

U.S. citizens are going to need obtain a burner phone before returning, and load it with the absolute minimum to load boarding passes, etc., perhaps some reading material or a movie to watch on the plane, and be prepared to share full credentials for thing at the border. (I used to do some travel patterns where taking a certain client laptop wasn’t an option. It was an absolute gigantic pain for the type of work I di…

I’ve been asked to hand over my phone when I entered India as a visitor with a valid visa. Yes it was a burner phone. Yes the officer questioned me after seeing only 7 photos in the entire Photos app. It was very obvious that it was a burner phone. I didn’t deceive the officer, instead I just nicely explained why this was a burner phone.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#443

Post by dawnerd »

pkulak wrote: post #186
trollbridge wrote: post #163

U.S. citizens are going to need obtain a burner phone before returning, and load it with the absolute minimum to load boarding passes, etc., perhaps some reading material or a movie to watch on the plane, and be prepared to share full credentials for thing at the border. (I used to do some travel patterns where taking a certain client laptop wasn’t an option. It was an absolute gigantic pain for the type of work I di…

I think it's enough to shut down you phone. Then it needs a pin, and you're entitled to not give that over, I believe. So you should be safe, apart from some kind of rubber-hose cryptanalysis.

That’s probably why they’ve been pushing the MPC app heavily.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#444

Post by 15155 »

josefritzishere wrote: post #49
gruez wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Amendment 4: He was charged for destroying evidence, not refusing a search >Amendment 5: Destroying evidence isn't testimony. Moreover he would have been in the clear if he just kept his mouth shut.

Evidence of what? Destroying evidence assumes he is guilty of a crime which there be evidence of. Our system is predicated on an assumption of innocence. The normal threshold to accuse is a "reasonable, articulable suspicion." This does not meet that criteria.

Destroying evidence or items believed to be evidence is a crime in itself, regardless of whether or not the original "evidence" or lack thereof pertains to a crime.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#445

Post by GolfPopper »

mcmcmc wrote: post #382
swat535 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting you say that, because as another Canadian, I would say that the sentiment in our country is the opposite of you describe. The actions of our government reflect it. Canada is moving further from US, not closer. Canadians who support Americans are in the minority at the moment. I'm not sure how a new US president would be able to turn it around.. further more, what's to say that the president thereafter wil…

The simple answer is we need constitutional reform. Term limits on SCOTUS, codification of norms (eg releasing presidential candidate tax returns, not blocking appointee confirmations indefinitely to steal the position for the next admin), anti corruption laws with teeth. Also things like reigning in the absurd executive power bloat that’s gone on since Lincoln. POTUS was never meant to be a king. There should never…

This is all just reshuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

You can't turn corrupt officials into honest ones by changing the laws they're already turning a blind eye to. And you can't use systems (such as the political parties and their donors/owners) that exist to further corruption to reign it in.

Americans need to want honest governance, and be willing to go to the mat for it. Until and unless there's a substantial engaged minority will to do so, changing the rules is just theater. And if the government was honest, the existing laws are sufficient. Nothing stops Congress from removing Trump and the Supreme Court tomorrow, save their own lack of interest in doing so.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#446

Post by rootusrootus »

cespare wrote: post #324
btbuildem wrote: post #227

The naivete of some of the comments here is astounding. It doesn't matter whether you're right, it doesn't matter whether it's the law, it's irrelevant that you have rights, etc. Those things are of the past now, for the US. I think it would be easier to understand the playing field and choose your actions accordingly, if you accept the US has entered its East Germany / late 20th century Soviet era -- except of cours…

This defeatism is unhelpful. I'll not simply surrender the country that I love, thanks.

Especially to someone who is unlikely to even be here.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#447

Post by grim_io »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #354
dijit wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its only with the benefit of hindsight (and being on the winning side- thus the propaganda was never dispelled) that we consider the stasi and so on the way we do. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.. might just be a duck. I don’t believe those living “normal lives” in East Germany or the Soviet era considered the police to be evil and invasive the way we do today.

> I don’t believe those living “normal lives” in East Germany or the Soviet era considered the police to be evil and invasive the way we do today. "normal life" under the Stasi was constant political terror and suppression. The death counts are low because they thought death too little of a penalty for opposing them - they used psychological warfare ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung ) and torture instead. Th…

Imagine the stories the currently ICE-detained could tell. Hunted in the streets like animals and stuck in cages, with no right to due process.

Sure, not as bad. Woohoo.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#448

Post by rootusrootus »

nikanj wrote: post #440
siren2026 wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit: deleted because political flamewar

Say whatever you want, just don't say it on social media or border control might not let you enter the country the next time

Border control can't stop you from entering the country. Please do not spread misinformation.

If you mean non-citizens? Well, I invite you to check out many other places all across the world who also pick and choose who they will allow to visit.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#450

Post by swsieber »

deepfriedbits wrote: post #268
btbuildem wrote: post #227

The naivete of some of the comments here is astounding. It doesn't matter whether you're right, it doesn't matter whether it's the law, it's irrelevant that you have rights, etc. Those things are of the past now, for the US. I think it would be easier to understand the playing field and choose your actions accordingly, if you accept the US has entered its East Germany / late 20th century Soviet era -- except of cours…

With all due respect, this is a wild take. Things aren't great in the U.S. right now, but they're not even in the same universe as what the Stasi was doing. > I think it would be easier to understand the playing field and choose your actions accordingly, if you accept the US has entered its East Germany / late 20th century Soviet era -- except of course with 1000x more invasive and effective surveillance tech.

> but they're not even in the same universe as what the Stasi was doing

At what point? It's easy to say when we mention the Stasi or the Nazis that we're comparing it to the end game they had going, but the transformation was a bit of process.

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