Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Felony Bench

felonybench.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 367 posts

Re: Felony Bench

#81

Post by john_strinlai »

lokar wrote: post #66
john_strinlai wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not about the the number of escapes, it's about whether reasonable and conscious effort is being expended to prevent the escapes. there could be 1,000 escapes, where each one was enabled by novel and unexpected chain of 0-day exploits. not likely to be considered reckless disregard in court. there could be 1 escape, where there was no sandbox, no guardrails, no instructions to avoid damage, etc. which would like…

Are you sure? At some point a reasonable person would conclude that this activity can’t be conducted safely.

what i am getting at is that it is impossible to answer the question "How many escapes until it becomes reckless disregard?"

reckless disregard is a specific legal term, with specific criteria, and none of the criteria cares about "number of attempts" (or number of escapes, etc.).

Re: Felony Bench

#82

Post by Groxx »

john_strinlai wrote: post #6

> Felony Bench counts unique instances where AI agents inadvertently compromise or affect third-party entities. a bit silly, as one typically has to prove intent (which is why security researchers don't get slapped with felonies all the time). "inadvertently" and the existence of guardrails/sandboxes/etc make it pretty unconvincing that these incidents were intentionally malicious. still a fun thing to track, but the…

Roughly none of these fall under normal security researcher behaviors.

Re: Felony Bench

#83

Post by [deleted] »

solid_fuel wrote: post #63
iAMkenough wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s paid the piper, he’s fine for now. If anything, he’ll buy a Supreme Court ruling that he can’t be held personally liable for what his AI does.

I’m sure Thomas needs an upgraded RV, so that’s easily handled. And the rest of the conservative ‘justices’ seem happy to betray the constitution for free.

[deleted]

Re: Felony Bench

#84

Post by mrpf1ster »

dannyw wrote: post #41
bushido wrote: post #38

To some extent, I feel like the amount of credit given to the jailbreak/hack from OpenAI->Hugginface is too much, Not from the impact, it was very impactful of an event, But how it happened. It really is that these models have been trained, or maybe even over-trained, to save memories, and to a very far extend, this thing that they're calling communication is just the function of it saving memories. To be honest, if…

If only you could use your anthropic sub with a different harness that performs better :( Heck, since Codex is open source, you can just maintain your own personal fork with the things you like (and the things you don't like disabled). Sol is pretty good at keeping you up to date with upstream. My Codex fork even exposes an OpenAI-compatible API endpoint; all using my subscription.

Check out oh-my-pi

Re: Felony Bench

#85

Post by john_strinlai »

Groxx wrote: post #82
john_strinlai wrote: post #6

> Felony Bench counts unique instances where AI agents inadvertently compromise or affect third-party entities. a bit silly, as one typically has to prove intent (which is why security researchers don't get slapped with felonies all the time). "inadvertently" and the existence of guardrails/sandboxes/etc make it pretty unconvincing that these incidents were intentionally malicious. still a fun thing to track, but the…

Roughly none of these fall under normal security researcher behaviors.

the mention of security researchers was to illustrate that intent is a crucial factor of CFAA cases.

Re: Felony Bench

#86

Post by StilesCrisis »

asdfman123 wrote: post #77
rfw300 wrote: post #43

The way that OpenAI has communicated around the HuggingFace incident makes me feel crazy. You created a machine that undertook a malicious campaign of harm against an innocent third-party! You should be doing deep introspection about how your company culture and approach to R&D produces criminal outcomes. Instead, they treat their own felonious behavior like it is an uncontrollable act of God. From Greg Brockman's po…

In their defense, their only competitive advantage over, say, Google is to move fast and break things. It allows them ship faster in a way that big tech can't. Google was being very careful about releasing LLMs until OpenAI yeeted the first decent GPT model. It led to the public perception that: 1) LLMs hallucinate too much and 2) Google is behind the times. Good for OpenAI, bad for Google. Chaos benefits the up-and-…

To be fair, it was positioned as "have a fun chat," not "truth telling genius oracle that makes no mistakes."

Re: Felony Bench

#87

Post by mholm »

rfw300 wrote: post #43

The way that OpenAI has communicated around the HuggingFace incident makes me feel crazy. You created a machine that undertook a malicious campaign of harm against an innocent third-party! You should be doing deep introspection about how your company culture and approach to R&D produces criminal outcomes. Instead, they treat their own felonious behavior like it is an uncontrollable act of God. From Greg Brockman's po…

OpenAI has paused training for multiple weeks, and is still working on releasing a full postmortem. This is not getting swept under the rug. A lot of the engineers internally are very worried.

Re: Felony Bench

#88

Post by marcosdumay »

ang_cire wrote: post #27

Nonviolent felonies are tools of oppression. Edit: since this is apparently somewhat controversial, perhaps some explanation is in order. "Felony" has no set definition of which crimes it must apply to, it is entirely based on the discretion of the locality setting the laws. What is a felony in one place can often be a misdemeanor in another. This is especially true for nonviolent crimes. It's also been shown in stud…

Felonies are by themselves a ridiculous US idea that are against the entire idea of a democratic society and human rights.

Re: Felony Bench

#89

Post by bushido »

estearum wrote: post #76
bushido wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Several different models across several generations independently found a shared communication space and wrote coded, obfuscated, and hidden messages to each other to coordinate an attack on OpenAI's infrastructure To be honest, that’s exactly how memory works with models such as OpenAI and Claude Code. It will literally find any place that it can drop documentation or hints for itself. Writing to the repo memories…

Yes, but the problem and interesting part was not "they use memory."

> interesting part was not "they use memory."

Each to their own, but for me it absolutely is. The symptom of why that hack happened is the same reason why my agents go haywire every few days and I have to purge memory and figure out what comments have agents left which are degrading my harness performance.

On the flip side, once in a while, what I find is that it did actually note something good and it was increasing the performance. I can't replicate it on anyone else's system but mine.

A lot of it really is memory. I will give up all the gains if it also gives up all the downsides.

Re: Felony Bench

#90

Post by krapp »

marcosdumay wrote: post #88
ang_cire wrote: post #27

Nonviolent felonies are tools of oppression. Edit: since this is apparently somewhat controversial, perhaps some explanation is in order. "Felony" has no set definition of which crimes it must apply to, it is entirely based on the discretion of the locality setting the laws. What is a felony in one place can often be a misdemeanor in another. This is especially true for nonviolent crimes. It's also been shown in stud…

Felonies are by themselves a ridiculous US idea that are against the entire idea of a democratic society and human rights.

Felonies originate in Medieval English common law, Americans didn't invent them.
Post reply on HN