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What Happens When the Cost of Intelligence Drops 100x

catalystneuro.com

101–110 of 151 posts

Re: What Happens When the Cost of Intelligence Drops 100x

#101
post #2

Author here. I made these plots because I had been searching for them for months and never found quite what I wanted: how the cheapest way to reach a fixed capability level has moved over time. Artificial Analysis publishes enough data to reconstruct it. If someone knows of a source that already tracks this, with historical prices, please share.

The animated Pareto front graph by time is truly inspired. Well done!

Re: What Happens When the Cost of Intelligence Drops 100x

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your computer may not feel faster than a 20 year old PC, but CPUs have gotten way, way faster. Compare the AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D to the AMD A12-9800, you go from 4 cores to 8, and you double the power consumption. But it's not twice as fast. It's 10 times faster. Depending on the exact metric, it could be as little as twice as fast or as much as 1000 times faster, depending on the exact operations. On top of that memor…

I kind of hoped my point would come across more clearly. Obviously my current computer is faster than one from 20 years ago. But, it doesn't really react more quickly. It just does more: higher resolution video, advanced graphics, etc. The moment we add capability we rush to use it all up. This is not _always_ bad when it comes to computing, but I wouldn't mind if people in general had more restraint.

I suppose that's true superficially, but how many of us utilize 100 percent of our CPU and GPU power.

AI datacenters, absolutely. People? Nah we probably use 10 percent for 90 percent of the time.

But when I need to compile MAME, oh boy is it nice having a fast CPU.

Re: What Happens When the Cost of Intelligence Drops 100x

#103
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why won’t the frontier models continue to become better? The open models are getting better but so are the frontier models. The frontier models might remain in a constant race to remain ahead

They are running out of novel, clean training data and compute. There is probably a limit to how much improvement can be squeezed out of LLMs. Recent improvements have been more about orchestration and "reasoning" loops (i.e. iteratively feeding context back through the model).

For base models they really must be running out of new training materials. It's more about size and architecture. But they still seem to be getting big strides out of improving the post training. They keep dropping point upgrades in under 8 weeks lately, which is an insane pace for product release. At some point it's going to slow down but we're not close yet imo.

Re: What Happens When the Cost of Intelligence Drops 100x

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of hoped my point would come across more clearly. Obviously my current computer is faster than one from 20 years ago. But, it doesn't really react more quickly. It just does more: higher resolution video, advanced graphics, etc. The moment we add capability we rush to use it all up. This is not _always_ bad when it comes to computing, but I wouldn't mind if people in general had more restraint.

I suppose that's true superficially, but how many of us utilize 100 percent of our CPU and GPU power. AI datacenters, absolutely. People? Nah we probably use 10 percent for 90 percent of the time. But when I need to compile MAME, oh boy is it nice having a fast CPU.

Right -- in the details this is heavily task dependent. If we're talking about word processing, then computing has mostly gotten worse in the past 20 years.

If we're talking about video game graphics it's a bit of a mixed bag.

If we're talking about local LLM models then you need all the power you can get.

Etc, etc.

Re: What Happens When the Cost of Intelligence Drops 100x

#105
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xiaomi robots do this in double digit seconds. Still slow compared to humans, but Chinese robots will be as successful as Chinese EVs, phones and solar panels.

Which is to say, they'll be banned in the US.

The 1950s in US didn't have vaccines, robots, or data centers.

Re: What Happens When the Cost of Intelligence Drops 100x

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ultimately there are no starving fat people It has been credibly hypothesized that fat people are indeed malnourished. What would you do if all your food sources were appallingly lacking in essential nutrients and the sorts of things your body craved in order to get fed? You would begin to eat more, and more and more, seeking to satisfy those cravings for nutrition. But if nutritional cravings aren't satisfied, you…

>What would you do if all your food sources were appallingly lacking in essential nutrients and the sorts of things your body craved in order to get fed? When I hit 300 lbs I might suspect there was a flaw in my reasoning.

Sure, you may be a rational actor and come to your senses, but you are also poor, you have no vehicle, and you live in a food desert. So will you realistically be up for major modifications to your lifestyle and habits?

Re: What Happens When the Cost of Intelligence Drops 100x

#108
post #58

I think what a lot of people miss about jevon's paradox is the elasticity of demand of the underlying resource textiles had jevons paradox, and many more textile workers were employed even when textile machines were being created, until we saturated the demand for cheap clothing in the world and then textile workers were kaput (same for farming, and horses) software is currently undergoing jevons paradox, but it's ve…

Brings up the question of what the intelligence is used for. Humans exploited intelligence for competition. With each other to wipe out other Homo species, mate more and collect resources, with other animals to limit predator impact and gain food. Intelligence will be used offensively by corporations and their people to extract more from consumers (make pricing opaque, terms of service more complicated, etc.) and scams far more sophisticated. The "consumer" will need extra intelligence to fight all that off. There are only so many meals you can expertly produce, shirts to fold, itineraries to fun places you can execute, but there's a practical infinity of traps to set and avoid.

Re: What Happens When the Cost of Intelligence Drops 100x

#109
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xiaomi robots do this in double digit seconds. Still slow compared to humans, but Chinese robots will be as successful as Chinese EVs, phones and solar panels.

Which is to say, they'll be banned in the US.

How long until we’re like Cuba, still tooling around in 50s cars. But maybe that’ll actually be seen as some kind of Luddite utopia in the future.

Re: What Happens When the Cost of Intelligence Drops 100x

#110
post #82
post #69

It’s way too early to tell the true cost of intelligence. Inference is still heavily subsidized, and training is apparently being funded by a mountain of free money

How do we know inference is heavily subsidized? Are all these third party Chinese model providers subsidizing the true cost?

> How do we know inference is heavily subsidized?

Balance sheets

> Are all these third party Chinese model providers subsidizing the true cost?

It could be argued the subidies are even heavier than American model providers as the price war among Chinese providers is so fierce. https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3358868/after-tri...

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