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AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

economist.com

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Re: AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

#101

Post by Der_Einzige »

zemo wrote: post #18

abolish homework

The often underworked (most are autograding these days and reading old powerpoints rather than do real curriculum development) and (for the quality) overpaid teachers/professors will mass riot against this because it means they might have to actually teach. We might even get yet more anti-boy treatment than already exists among them as a social class in retaliation.

Please also abolish PowerPoint and force oral exams while you are at it.

Teachers are also luddites as a social class. Math teachers cried about calculators yet everyone of them who refused to adapt did disservice to their students (especially anyone doing statistics). My state's education system is utter trash despite being well off economically because of strong teachers unions keeping them from undergoing even a tiny bit of scrutiny.

They do not deserve the social credit/grace that they get. They are ultimately gatekeepers, whose extremely biased decisions in grading/treatment of their flocks decide which kid grows up on the streets and which kid grows up to eat lobster thermador every day.

Teachers also should not be disciplinarians. Children with discipline problems bad enough to disrupt a whole class should be thrown out of the class room as basically the only thing a teacher does for "discipline". The "right to education for the shit kids means we can't do that" framing is such trash for those who want an education and will inevitably be disrupted by a small minority of terrible students.

Also it's interesting that one of the only other things Max Stirner wrote about besides philosophy was education and his myriad problems with it (given his history as a school teacher).

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/max-stirner-the-fals...

Re: AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

#102

Post by LandoCalrissian »

grahammccain wrote: post #35

Guess what this is probably fine. AI helps people do their work on a daily basis and probably makes them memorize less things. That’s how the world is moving. You don’t need to be able to memorize something for an exam to show mastery of a topic. And we shouldn’t organize our society around memorizing things for exams.

"You don’t need to be able to memorize something for an exam to show mastery of a topic."

Yes you do???

Re: AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

#103

Post by avgDev »

Calavar wrote: post #68
avgDev wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think having a single source of truth would not be terrible. Let me explain. All podiatrists are not the same. All physicians in their specialties are often specializing in their own niche and are up-to-date on that niche. I've had lisfranc ligament injury. My podiatrist wanted to perform a surgery quickly, which in 90% of cases is advised. I decided to seek a 2nd opinion because I realized she did the X-r…

I am confused as to how this is an argument for a single source of truth. It seems like you've presented an argument for the opposite. If there were a single source of truth, there would be no point in seeking a second opinion - it would be the same as the first. If the first opinion was correct, excellent. But if the first opinion was incorrect (and no AI model is correct 100% of the time), then you're straight out…

The problem is that the first source is incorrect because she doesn't deal with lisfranc injuries frequently enough and her knowledge is not good enough. I've had to go do my own research to find a guy who specializes in lisfranc. Most patients would not.

However, if you went to an AI agent which has access to medical research, you would get the most up to date research.

Why would I seek a 2nd opinion if the initial doctor knew what to do?

Re: AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

#104

Post by dgellow »

GPerson wrote: post #29
zemo wrote: post #18

abolish homework

This is the answer. Many (all?) European schools don’t give homework (this is partly because of the way the grad programs work). It’s on the students to study in order to pass the (difficult) exams.

There is no such thing as a European school. Each country is different. And if the country is a federation, each state might be different. And we have homework in most European countries I’m aware of.

What are you basing that claim on?

Re: AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

#105

Post by avgDev »

pton_xd wrote: post #67
avgDev wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think having a single source of truth would not be terrible. Let me explain. All podiatrists are not the same. All physicians in their specialties are often specializing in their own niche and are up-to-date on that niche. I've had lisfranc ligament injury. My podiatrist wanted to perform a surgery quickly, which in 90% of cases is advised. I decided to seek a 2nd opinion because I realized she did the X-r…

> I actually think having a single source of truth would not be terrible. We should establish a single practice of care, MedicineGPT. It may be a rough start but over time the gene pool will adapt and the human race will live harmoniously with the machines (sorry, with the GPUs). Plus our insurance premiums should finally go down.

It would be better than most physicians now. It can quickly crunch many pages of medical history and medical research, this something a physician cannot do. They have intuition but sometimes are not equipped to deal with complex problems.

Re: AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

#106

Post by educasean »

avgDev wrote: post #53
johnnyApplePRNG wrote: post #34

[flagged]

Homework isn't boring.....its the social media and addictive games that completely are destroying our attention span. After I detox from online games, I can go back to learning new "boring" stuff. There are nerds(myself included) who find learning fun, and using AI boring because it doesn't scratch the learning itch.

Learning isn't boring. Homework is incredibly boring.

They aren't assigned based on each student's understanding and mastery of the subject. They're assigned based on the lowest common denominator. It's an incredibly discouraging hoop to jump through for students who actively find joy in learning and discovering new things.

Re: AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

#107

Post by insane_dreamer »

grahammccain wrote: post #35

Guess what this is probably fine. AI helps people do their work on a daily basis and probably makes them memorize less things. That’s how the world is moving. You don’t need to be able to memorize something for an exam to show mastery of a topic. And we shouldn’t organize our society around memorizing things for exams.

so how _do_ you show mastery of a topic?

Re: AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

#108

Post by brian_spiering »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #88
criddell wrote: post #65

For some of the classes my kids were in, the lessons and homework time were reversed. Learning the material (using the text book and videos) was what they had to do at night and class time was spent working through problems or applying the material in some way.

Flipped classroom was a popular method when I was teaching math. Some students found it very helpful. The trouble was getting the students to do the reading before class. If students came in unprepared they struggled to keep up.

I taught a flipped classroom online. Students had to successful pass a quiz on the before class materials to get the join link to the session.

Re: AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

#109

Post by MrToadMan »

alpha_squared wrote: post #50
vorticalbox wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I don’t know but after this meeting I will find out and get back to you” Is an acceptable answer.

It's only an acceptable answer when used sparingly. The more often it's used, the more questions arise about your role in that meeting.

People can also ask questions that it is unreasonable to expect people to know on the spot too and after a while the role of the questioner in the meeting can be questioned. :)

Re: AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study

#110

Post by shahhsuusi »

alpha_squared wrote: post #50
vorticalbox wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I don’t know but after this meeting I will find out and get back to you” Is an acceptable answer.

It's only an acceptable answer when used sparingly. The more often it's used, the more questions arise about your role in that meeting.

I find people’s on the spot reasoning abilities considerable worse than even cheap LLMs. This “fast” mentality is what causes stupid decisions because we need to “keep moving” (To where? Wrong meeting!) Answers, answers, decisions, decisions, quick, quick! next quarter In hindsight we need to do things differently. Answers, answer, quick quick! Time is of the essence! If you don’t start producing sound within 5 seconds we will all spontaneously combust!
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