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Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

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Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#371
This video hit me really hard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N6qPEA_dGc

As far as what approaches to life are enabled by high intelligence at "low level", but which simply do not work as "high level".

He talks about dealing with 100 problems not by prioritizing them and taking the first step on the first one, but by rotating them and recombining them until there are only 90 problems, and this becoming a terrible habit as the scale & complexity of the problems makes it less productive.

He talks about intelligent people simply noticing more things about the world that are working poorly and understanding what has gone wrong, but not having any commensurate capability to fix them.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#372

Ambition is antithetical to contentment, not intelligence. This is the drunkard's search principle [0]. If you go looking for intelligence, it is easiest to find among perpetual strivers, either because they will sit for any test and take it seriously or because they have already distinguished themselves as an elite competitor in chess, physics, whatever. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect

Interesting. Agree. Ambition seems to be more the issue. How are ambition and intelligence related?

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#373
I see a lot of top comments here about how smart people will be disappointed by the world. They see everything broken about it because they are so smart.

I don’t really buy it. There is a sizeable minority here with high enough wealth and income that also (because of their place in society) think that a lot of things are more benign, neutral, or good than they really are. I’ve seen enough threads here demonstrating that. They think that this thing is just a mistake. That other thing can just be fixed by getting smarter people in charge. We just need good and capable people in charge of this other thing and it will be alright. And so on.[1] They watch the news and think that the presenters and people they interview are on their side—and they often are, relatively speaking at least.[2]

This is basically “Mistake Theory” that that Alexander psychologist wrote about. Out of what I have read from him that was the most true thing I’ve read. (But those high IQ + higher income bracket + gadfly interest people just dress it up in let’s say less academic and more improvised theories.)

Independent of intelligence, people with less authority and wealth have more input in their life that gives them reason to doubt and fret.[1]

PD: People lamenting their smartness: 355 comments and counting. Predictably catnip subject.

PDD: It is weird that for an IQ fetishist community where intelligence can solve most things, the only thing it cannot solve is your own contentment, as in it actively sabotages you. But why not? I’m not convinced.

[1] This is basically my vulgar understanding of standpoint epistemology.

[2] But note: sizeable minority. It’s not like I have numbers or anything, but I think there are plenty of people here who are cynical and pessimistic. Not as in, they are wrong. But due to intelligence or background they have reasons to doubt the great order of things. And this place has gotten more realistic/cynical (I say both) over the years. Still, this still is a hub for well paid US West Coast programmers.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#374
> This large, nationally-representative study from the UK finds that people who score the lowest on an intelligence test are a little less happy than everyone else, but that’s pretty much it

There’s a rational explanation here: IQ is not an absolute or proportional scale, and the happiness data actually is reflecting the true absolute difference in intelligence, which is smaller than the authors and many people assume.

IQ is a ranking measure, not a proportional measure of intelligence. A high IQ does not imply high intelligence on an absolute scale. The IQ scale is just standard deviations. If we measured height in standard deviations, this becomes clear, but somehow people don’t understand what IQ is, and it has become essentially a popular misconception.

Let’s measure height using HQ, where the mean is 100 and 1 stddev is 15 HQ. Then a 30 year old male who’s 5’9” has an HQ of 100. A 30 year old male who’s 6 feet tall has an HQ of over 115. That’s a 15% increase in HQ score for a 4% increase in height. Someone who’s 7 feet tall would have an HQ of 175 - a score some people label as supergenius, or in the “profoundly gifted range” on the IQ scale - yet they’re only 20% taller than the average male. (IQ doesn’t even work reliably above 160 anyway). And the HQ distribution stops at 8’11” (HQ of ~195, tallest person to ever live, ~50% taller than average), humans don’t ever grow taller than that.

There are good reasons to assume IQ works the same way - score ratios exaggerate intelligence differences, and the highest IQs are only moderately more intelligent than the median. This fully explains the result above - higher IQ does make someone happier, but only in proportion to actual intelligence, not in proportion to IQ.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#375
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda would expect a person with a strong back or legs to be happier. I think there's a strong correlation between health and fitness and happiness.

> I think there's a strong correlation between health and fitness and happiness Most depressed people don't have the energy to exercise, and people with executive function disorders have problems with procrastination and often can't form the routine needed for increases in fitness.

Yup! Depression can cause psychomotor retardation, which can make even basic physical activities like sitting or walking painful because it feels physically heavy to carry all that weight.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#376
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you absolutely cannot know what it's like until you actually have them While it's less common now, I don't think anyone who grew up in a bigger family under one roof could agree with that. Nothing divine is gatekeeping this experience. It's the socioeconomic climate we've created doing that. It makes perfect sense that you value your family so deeply, but you might want to reconsider where you anchor your pride. It…

> […] I don't think anyone who grew up in a bigger family under one roof could agree with that. I do. I grew up with 5 siblings, and having brothers and sisters is very, very different from having your own children. My relation with and my emotions towards my children is very different from my relation with and my emotions towards my siblings, both now and when I was still living with them in the same house.

Off-topic: I have absolutely no idea why my comment got downvoted. I shared a personal anecdote that's directly relevant to the discussion at hand and which counters the claim of the comment I replied to. Does someone think I'm lying? Was my comment too controversial? I don't get it. What is wrong with this site?

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My secretary is absolutely clueless about maths and yet every interaction with her improves my mood, she is a lovely motherly 50something person who cheers you up every day. Her being my colleague definitely makes me happier.

For me it's the lack of curiosity that makes me resentful of people. I can understand completely people are clueless about maths. But having no curiosity about anything seems to be so common in this country right now.

Can everyone afford to be curious though? I think being innately curious like cats is a double-edged sword. I think most people aren't privileged enough to explore their curiosities fully. Curiosity often costs much more than time when we take opportunity costs into account.

For example, I used to be much more curious about a lot of things but now that I'm stressed about my life, my priorities shifted.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is consistent with the Terman study. The large majority of subjects had productive careers and lives for the follow-up.

You know, except for Luis Alvarez and William Shockley who were deemed too unintelligent to be included in Terman's study. Yet, both of them later went on to independently win Nobel Prizes.

> and William Shockley were deemed too unintelligent to be included in Terman's study

So I’m one of his few remaining descendants and.. funny story, though likely for the best, despite knowing his professional history and subsequent legacy of “Doc Shock” I didn’t even consider to ride the coattails of our family name.

It wasn’t until a decade into my career when I found myself in a founding engineer role of a small database proxy startup, and presented with the problem of “how do I get a room full of engineers to hush up and listen” (as a conference speaker), did the idea to leverage the family name as a pseudo appeal-to-authority dawn on me.

I’m happy that I took the self-made route, rather than leveraging the family name earlier in my career (and to more direct effect). Though the dramatic irony of knowing it was through my own incompetence, not through some greater moral code, that I didn’t lean more into nepotism as a career advantage will never cease to get make me laugh at my own little inside joke at the self-schadenfrende of it.

But back to your quote, I can confidently say the “genius” apple doesn’t fall far from the tree in regard to Shockmeister’s sub-genius status. My only hope is that I can continue to avoid whatever apple gave him the eugenics bug.

Based on my relationship with intelligence, it’s not been my sheer intelligence that’s been my greatest asset. It’s actually the inverse! I can easily reform my mental model at different levels of resolution. This means I can be both an engineer’s engineer when building, while also being able to communicate the same ideas to hundreds of people in a conference context and achieve great sales funnel conversations from that.

I attribute whatever this latent predisposition to recognize potential applications of technologies strategically early to whatever led my former to his discovery. As a result, I have a great track record of spending ‘innovation tokens’ wisely, to quote Choose Boring Technologies.

Concretely, the latest investment I made was in standardizing my current startup around Mise. Not because it’s a great DX, but because I believe the primitives mise provides are a key enabler for agentic development in a distributed org and team context. I _may_ be productizing a public version of our organization’s agent runtime, since I believe my choices in technologies, conventions, onboarding flow, and most importantly - positioning within the organization - provide a turnkey solution to the problem every mid-size-and-up tier CTO has with their board: having a defined AI strategy where token spend justifies due to run costs scaling with respect to engineering & product deliverables produced.

Happy to answer any questions, though to be blunt, considering that Willie B (a.k.a. William Bradford) passed before I had the opportunity to meet him, I don’t have much tribal knowledge of his life to share. Though, to the credit of my immediate family’s character, he was already estranged leading up to his infamous public television appearances.

I’ve been considering writing a biography on what my experience with the duality of living ‘up’ to his (positive) professional legacy while navigating recognition of the harm he caused has done to affect me, both the headwinds & tailwinds.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people, including myself, just know that we don't want to have children. Our outcomes won't have the same distribution as those of people who always wanted to have children, no matter how "smart" we are about it. Another factor is that when you have children and regret it you can suffer a lot more than just "-1" of misery - I'd say the scale is more like -10 to +1 (centered around 0). Furthermore if you end up r…

I've never met anyone who was sorry they had children, but I've met a lot of people who missed the opportunity (to be fair, I've never met the parents of a violent criminal). Kids can be hard, especially if you're not a natural, and especially when they're young, but-- it's impossible to describe the fulsome love I have for my kids. I'm not a sentimental person, and probably wouldn't have had them without my wife (wh…

I don't really expect anyone to casually admit that they regret having children to anyone but their closest confidants, perhaps not even themselves, the social stigma and shame would be unbearable.

I don't know how much research there is on this but anecdotally there are many emotionally absent and neglectful parents out there. They might be able to cope with the way their life is but that doesn't mean that they're good parents (or that they wouldn't do things differently if they got to start over again).

There's also a chance that your child is born with disabilities that demand intensive life-long support. I know that I couldn't cope with that, so even if my general outlook on having children changed some day I could never get past this, for my own good and out of responsibility for my hypothetical child.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework), and I let that label stick with me for far too long. I took some pride in how I could get the top score in a class without studying, and didn't realize that studying itself was a useful skill. I let this whole mindset drag me down through undergrad (especially once I hit the point where I really ought to have studied), an…

> I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework), and I let that label stick with me for far too long I just never understood why the secondary education system is set up to make smart and lazy people succeed without effort while the hardworking, but less gifted kids struggle. It just gives you an impression that life is much easier than it is, and you can BS your way…

> I just never understood why the secondary education system is set up to make smart and lazy people succeed without effort while the hardworking, but less gifted kids struggle.

My high school math teacher didn't subscribe to this idea, so for the first time in my life I had poor scores in math.

We took six previous years' math finals as part of our preparation. I recall scoring a humbling 33/50 on my first attempt.

My final result was 45/50 because there was a 3pt. problem I couldn't solve, but decided not to since I had like 15 minutes left and was confident that the rest was largely ok.

Lost 2pt. on some minor stuff I overlooked.

Of course I didn't learn my lesson just yet back then because I had years of being lazy under my belt, so I struggled through college.

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