Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 1001 posts

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#71

Post by OutOfHere »

someothherguyy wrote: post #68
34679 wrote: post #21

Amendment 4: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Amendment 5: "..nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witn…

you don't have those protections at the border: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

There is no such exception allowed in the Constitution. And if a case is made that they're not legally in the US yet, then by the same logic, they should not be subject to all the same laws of the US yet.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#72

Post by OutOfHere »

floathub wrote: post #2

According to the article, he was actually using GrapheneOS and gave the border official the Duress PIN. So I guess technically it was the official that erased the data :-)

No, to my knowledge, they ask you to enter your PIN/password yourself. They don't enter it for you. I believe he entered it himself, at which point the erasure began. The erasure process was witnessed by the officer.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#73

Post by josefritzishere »

someothherguyy wrote: post #68
34679 wrote: post #21

Amendment 4: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Amendment 5: "..nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witn…

you don't have those protections at the border: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

Even Wikipedia spells out that invasive searches require "reasonable suspicion." So we return to the core question... suspicion of what? Suspicion is not a crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#74

Post by OutOfHere »

juancn wrote: post #66

I don't get the legal contradiction. The search is supposed to be lawful without a warrant because you're not really in the US yet per-se, hence if you're not there, how deleting the data can be a felony?

That is a most interesting and underrated point.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#75

Post by OutOfHere »

quickthrowman wrote: post #45

Would it be permissible to wipe your phone before going through customs to get back into the US? If they ask to search your already wiped phone, you aren’t destroying any evidence.

Yes. Of course it is permissible. It is your device. The wipe must have completed before arriving at the counter.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#76

Post by OutOfHere »

hoppyhoppy2 wrote: post #8
pjc50 wrote: post #4

Paywalled, but what is the actual charge? Is it some extremely generic "obstructing an investigation" one? The US is quite good about making court documents available on line, if someone can find it.

The article says he was charged with obstruction. You can try this "gift link" to the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/21/us/politics/samuel-tunick...

The gift link shows only a fraction of the article text. Just stick to https://archive.is/SflVC.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#77

Post by hamper653 »

ramgine wrote: post #29
jmclnx wrote: post #12

Yet another case that will waste the court's time and money. All this is doing is keeping defense lawyers pocket's lined. At this point, people should buy a burner phone when going to/from the US. In that phone only have a couple of phone numbers and that's it.

Think it’s better to travel without a phone at all and buy one when arriving in the us? Problematic I guess with everything being digital

It has been standard practice for some time now in some European companies.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#78

Post by hamper653 »

gruez wrote: post #30
34679 wrote: post #21

Amendment 4: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Amendment 5: "..nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witn…

>Amendment 4: He was charged for destroying evidence, not refusing a search >Amendment 5: Destroying evidence isn't testimony. Moreover he would have been in the clear if he just kept his mouth shut.

> He was charged for destroying evidence, not refusing a search

Evidence with regard to which investigation?

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#79

Post by bot403 »

gruez wrote: post #58
josefritzishere wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence of what? Destroying evidence assumes he is guilty of a crime which there be evidence of. Our system is predicated on an assumption of innocence. The normal threshold to accuse is a "reasonable, articulable suspicion." This does not meet that criteria.

Well that's the thing with destroying evidence. If you destroyed it, it becomes harder (or impossible) to prove you did the crime. That's why it's not uncommon for people to be only charged with stuff like "obstruction of justice" rather than the actual crime they allegedly did.

And what if he was erasing a steamy affair with a border patrol agent? That's not illegal, but releasing knowledge of it could be damaging to all parties for no reason.

Re: Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border

#80

Post by iamnothere »

GJim wrote: post #52
Sharlin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, they may well give you bad time if your phone looks like a burner with too little content.

> Oh, they may well give you bad time if your phone looks like a burner with too little content. Issuing 'burner phones' and laptops to staff visiting countries such as China or the USA is now SOP for many companies handling sensitive data, including mine. Don't think this isn't unusual.

Exactly, these people making shit up about border crossings are either doing so in bad faith or haven’t done a lot of international business travel.
Post reply on HN