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AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

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Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#511

Post by LaGrange »

ziyadb wrote: post #299

I was surprised to read that Anthropic (and probably other data / model companies) are doing this and it's extremely disappointing, as working towards the benefit of humanity is not an exclusive right / domain of theirs but rather, is a shared responsibility and mission carried by all of humanity itself as a collective responsibility. Thus, the preservation of this knowledge, its availability, and accessibility are t…

> I was surprised to read that Anthropic (and probably other data / model companies) are doing this and it's extremely disappointing, as working towards the benefit of humanity

Look, others talked about how this fetishising of paper books is quite silly (though I don't like it when the destructive scanning is just so one could feed it into a chatbot) but I have to say, all I can do after reading the above sentence is laughing bitterly. Anthropic is an American for-profit company, any talk about "working towards the benefit of humanity" is just marketing lies, and it's always incredible to see people treat those seriously.

_Of course_ Anthropic does that.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#512

Post by unleaded »

azan_ wrote: post #129
unleaded wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whose job is it to dictate what is and isn't worth saving?

Well for example yours - if you don’t pay for these rare books and don’t store them in good condition, then you have decided that they are not worth saving. Many of these rare books would run you like I don’t know, 1 buck?

I don't think I have enough money or room to buy all the books I think are worth saving, and my list no doubt has some overlap with someone else's. If I did buy them, what if someone else wants to read them? If I lose it or it gets destroyed in some way, the chance it will be gone forever increases (assuming there are multiple copies). Entrusting the availability of knowledge to individuals like that sounds like a bad idea. There could be some kind of publicly funded organisation that can take care of a big collection of books, afford to keep them safe, and make them accessible to anyone.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#513

Post by mjdv »

chrisjj wrote: post #474
hypendev wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From a historical precedent standpoint, this is akin to the burning of the library of Alexandria, where centuries of knowledge was destroyed and leaving a limited version of the history, the surviving one, and depriving successive generations of significant amount of latent knowledge. How tho? Ever sunday at the flea market, I see thousands of books that are rotting, hoping for someone to buy them or at least take t…

> This way, it will live forever instead, scanned But unreadable by humans, right?

They're scans. Those are human-readable. They probably won't make them available to the public, which is the exact same state they would be in if they bought the books and just put them on a bookshelf in a warehouse.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#514

Post by michaelsbradley »

ziyadb wrote: post #299

I was surprised to read that Anthropic (and probably other data / model companies) are doing this and it's extremely disappointing, as working towards the benefit of humanity is not an exclusive right / domain of theirs but rather, is a shared responsibility and mission carried by all of humanity itself as a collective responsibility. Thus, the preservation of this knowledge, its availability, and accessibility are t…

> From a historical precedent standpoint, this is akin to the burning of the library of Alexandria

Are you referring to the burning of the Serapeum in AD 391 or the warehouse fires in 48 BC?

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#515

Post by [deleted] »

ziyadb wrote: post #299

I was surprised to read that Anthropic (and probably other data / model companies) are doing this and it's extremely disappointing, as working towards the benefit of humanity is not an exclusive right / domain of theirs but rather, is a shared responsibility and mission carried by all of humanity itself as a collective responsibility. Thus, the preservation of this knowledge, its availability, and accessibility are t…

[deleted]

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#516

Post by margalabargala »

fluoridation wrote: post #212
margalabargala wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having or not having a book is absolutely fuzzy. If you have a translation, do you have the book? Even if, like the Odyssey, there are hundreds of wildly varying translations? What about an abridged copy? What about the Sparknotes version? If you have a copy of Pride And Prejudice And Zombies, do you have a copy of Pride And Prejudice? Certainly more so than if you have neither.

>If you have a translation, do you have the book? No, you have a translation. >Even if, like the Odyssey, there are hundreds of wildly varying translations? Precisely why translations are not considered equivalent to the original text. >What about an abridged copy? What about the Sparknotes version? An abridged copy is not a copy of the unabridged version. >If you have a copy of Pride And Prejudice And Zombies, do yo…

My opinion is different from yours.

If I have a translation of a book, I think I have more of that book than if I had nothing at all. It's fuzzy.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#517

Post by BeetleB »

snickerbockers wrote: post #436
Aurornis wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From a historical precedent standpoint, this is akin to the burning of the library of Alexandria, These comparisons are starting to get ridiculous. Why are so many people assuming there is exactly one copy of all of these important books available, that it’s sitting in the warehouse of a bulk book reseller, and that Anthropic is destroying the lone copy? Your local library throws out books every year and nobody tho…

>Why are so many people assuming there is exactly one copy of all of these important books available, and that Anthropic is destroying the lone copy? Why are you assuming that each book gets scanned exactly one time and then never again? And why are you assuming that out-of-print books remain easily accessible so long as not every copy has been destroyed? >Your local library throws out books every year and nobody tho…

No. Almost none of the books you donate to the library get to the shelves. If they can sell it, they will. Otherwise they are thrown away.

I even read on a web site of a librarian that their library had stopped accepting donations because "patrons should know how to throw away their own trash".

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#518

Post by dd8601fn »

brookst wrote: post #432
ziyadb wrote: post #299

I was surprised to read that Anthropic (and probably other data / model companies) are doing this and it's extremely disappointing, as working towards the benefit of humanity is not an exclusive right / domain of theirs but rather, is a shared responsibility and mission carried by all of humanity itself as a collective responsibility. Thus, the preservation of this knowledge, its availability, and accessibility are t…

No, that’s the hyperbolic reaction clickbait wants from you. Not all rare books are valuable. Someone’s self-published junk sitting in the garage is NOT analogous to the library of Alexandria. Many, most, maybe all of these “rare” books are being scanned instead of just being recycled. Not a big Reddit fan but there was a great post there from someone in the book industry talking about how non-industry people often g…

I don’t think any of these people know.

All I’ve read, as far as sources go, is a number of rare book sellers saying they’ve had a big uptick in huge orders with no price haggling. Apparently that’s peculiar. And some of them seemed a little concerned.

Now I’m certain they’re not chopping up Davincis notebooks, but I’m not certain there aren’t some that would make people wince.

And I don’t have any reason to think some reddit librarian knows what’s going on, if anything, either way.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#519

Post by brainwad »

embedding-shape wrote: post #455
brainwad wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a shit idea. But that's copyright law for you - if you want to digitise the work for yourself, you according to latest precedents have to destroy the copy you digitised ¯ \ _ ( ツ ) _ / ¯ I don't blame the companies for either wanting digitised works, nor following the law. I blame the absurd court ruling, and I blame the publishers for not having digitised the old works themselves, in which case they could just…

But why do they have to do this at all? If it's a shit idea, and you cannot do something without negative side-effects of it, can't you just not do it? Why these companies absolutely have to do this?

Well, they want to use the book they own in digital format. They own it, they get to decide what to do with it.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#520

Post by p-e-w »

Goronmon wrote: post #441
snickerbockers wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why are so many people assuming there is exactly one copy of all of these important books available, and that Anthropic is destroying the lone copy? Why are you assuming that each book gets scanned exactly one time and then never again? And why are you assuming that out-of-print books remain easily accessible so long as not every copy has been destroyed? >Your local library throws out books every year and nobody tho…

As for books that haven't fallen apart from being used as intended and merely are no longer desired, my local library generally sells them off at bargain prices. What happens when the books don't sell?

They are thrown away, which has been happening since forever, and nobody ever gave a fuck until AI got involved.
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