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AI;DR (AI; Didn't Read)

rickmanelius.com

721–729 of 729 posts

Re: AI;DR (AI; Didn't Read)

#721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Document what's there, not the diff We recently added a similar thing to our style guide, It’s astonishing to me that we have to spell this out, that something as obvious as this needs to be explained to LLM’s at all. They’re supposed to be exceeding human intelligence, at least at things like programming, but can’t understand basic things like what code comments are.

My theory (which might be completely wrong) is that models do this because it improves quality for vibe coders. When vibe coding the content of user prompts is ground truth and the only way any human thought affect the code base. So if the vibe coder says "do X not Y", recording int comments that "we shouldn't do Y" is important. It ensures that the agent doesn't accidentally decide to do Y tomorrow, which would frus…

The problem is the comments only make sense if you knew the original prompt in the first place. It'd be one thing if AI left a bunch of breadcrumbs reminding itself not do do Y, but when it makes a comment that only makes sense if you know about the original requirement not to do Y, to me it's more likely to trip up future agents than it is to help them.

A recent example I saw was an agent leaving a comment "// return an error here instead of panicking, as a panic will abort the process". Because likely the original human in the loop caught the AI putting a panic in there and told them not to, and then the comment to not do panics was placed in there. But to a future agent, it'll see that and think "ok, this comment must be here because we usually do use panics instead of returning errors, this place must be an exception", and now its context window is primed to think of using panics first.

It's pretty well-documented at this point that spending a lot of tokens explaining what not to do can actually increase the likelihood of an LLM doing that thing, especially when its context window is getting full.

It's like if you go to the grocery store and see a sign saying "Vegan tomatoes". It sounds fine until you think "wait, aren't all tomatoes vegan?" and now you start doubting yourself and start imagining what a non-vegan tomato would be.

Another semi-related issue is the tendency for LLM's to make up their own dumb little short-hand words for things that it has been talking about over and over in the context window. "The lock that prevents a user from being deleted while another thread is updating it" becomes a "user-fence", and now there's comments saying "// this function returns a user-fence", and I have absolutely no idea what that's supposed to even mean.

Re: AI;DR (AI; Didn't Read)

#722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a code review, right? Give feedback that about the docs and block merging till the issue is resolved.

You can't keep up with the slop. And before you finish a first pass read on the wall of diff, another AI sloperator on the team has hit approve and the PR is merged.

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Re: AI;DR (AI; Didn't Read)

#723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you didn’t over-react. Some people seem so afraid of consuming AI-generated content that they see it everywhere. A popular YouTuber says “thanks for the pushback” in a YouTube video and has the mob at his door, instantly, despite it not being written by AI. In the comments for any blog post or article that hits the HN front page, there is always someone confidently calling it out for being unmistakeably writ…

>A popular YouTuber says “thanks for the pushback” in a YouTube video and has the mob at his door, instantly, despite it not being written by AI. In this era, I live by two principles 1. Do my best to avoid AI slop. If you agree, this is straightforward. I don't always succeed and I'm sure I've "fallen for it" in quite a few places, but I disengage if I sense it. 2. Let sleeping dogs lie. Because I'm not some almight…

Thank you for the considered response. Do you know the name of the channel the video was on? Searching youtube for ‘developing taste’ returns too many videos and I don’t know where to start.

Re: AI;DR (AI; Didn't Read)

#724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that it fundamentally isn't able to produce something concise, it's that the business model of the companies developing these models rests on selling tokens...

It’s not some conspiracy. If they knew how to make the AI responses better and more concise, they would. They just don’t yet.

It's not a conspiracy to say it's unwise to expect a company to drive a research & product direction that will directly impact their reduce. Some might be smart enough to realize it's the right long game, but it takes leaders who understand and plan out second order consequences.

Re: AI;DR (AI; Didn't Read)

#725

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Who'd want to work in an environment like this? It's not sustainable

That's the existential threat right now, isn't it? So much of our industry is top-down being told "agentic programming is the only way forward" and anyone who disagrees is laid off. (I'm in that boat. I've been out of work since April.) It doesn't feel sustainable now . It won't feel sustainable in the future when companies are trying to operate on an entire fossil layer of LLM-generated legacy code. Do I expect mana…

You believe they are wrong so strongly you are willing to be out of a job rather than let them play the game which just happens to make your job easier and see what happens? I don’t understand that attitude. Couldn’t you just do as you were told and use AI to the best of your abilities making sure it doesn’t push broken code? You can even have fun coding by hand while your agents are doing other stuff behind the scenes.

Re: AI;DR (AI; Didn't Read)

#726
post #36

The part that astonishes me is that in the year of our common era two thousand twenty-six that it's not universally offensive and reviling to post an AI-generated response to another person. If I'm reading something on the internet, I'm either reading it to learn, or I'm reading it to be persuaded. If I wanted the LLM to teach me (thank you, no), I would ask an LLM. I'm reading your website/newsletter/email because I…

A few thoughts. - I'm open to seeing information from an AI (I'm fine with an LLM "teaching me") so long as it is high quality. That does require human inspection. - I've seen a related bit about AI-written emails where the commenter would rather see the prompt. I agree. As a software engineer, I like reproducibility. If an AI outputs an interesting result, show me the "source" (i.e. the model, effort, prompt, etc.).…

>The coming generations may value AI's opinion much more highly, whether that's right or not.

I think we're already there. We started having database issues after a rushed deploy (the PR diff had +100k lines). Everyone was pasting random Fable output as gospel and grasping at straws running random "create index concurrently" statements directly in production while I was slowly reading library documentation, testing hypotheses, gathering logs.

One colleague was completely in denial that his vibe coded "optimizations" that went into the update could have anything to do with the problem. I eventually found that the "optimizations", naively trying to optimize for page "first contentful paint" were prefetching pages whenever users hovered over anything and creating a barrage of requests.

And people seem really proud of what they "generate" too, not at all worried that they might be offloading the consequences to others. It's a stupid, tiring time to be working in software.

Re: AI;DR (AI; Didn't Read)

#727

I really like the point I read somewhere the other day; instead of sending me the AI output, just send me the prompt you used to generate it. That is the only part that contains only the information you are trying to convey. The rest is just guesses flowery language added, and it confuses the actual message being sent.

How is this? https://claude.ai/share/99bfee0f-bab9-4593-aabb-377e71f1151d

Gotta be honest, your stream-of-consciousness was a more natural/comfortable read than the AI version.

Re: AI;DR (AI; Didn't Read)

#728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those behaviors bothers you enough you can always mail hn@ycombinator.com because dang is not omniscient even if sometimes it looks like he is...

How many active moderators are there? This site has a lot of comments, far too many for one person to read.

Not many and if you lurk more than comment (like I do) then you don't have enough credibility on this site to down vote or flag things. Which is in my humble opinion counter productive since a bot would comment far more often to influence the comments than a human which like me often doesn't comment because my comment doesn't hold enough value to further the insightful discussion so I look more like a new account even with many years of membership.

Re: AI;DR (AI; Didn't Read)

#729
post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the existential threat right now, isn't it? So much of our industry is top-down being told "agentic programming is the only way forward" and anyone who disagrees is laid off. (I'm in that boat. I've been out of work since April.) It doesn't feel sustainable now . It won't feel sustainable in the future when companies are trying to operate on an entire fossil layer of LLM-generated legacy code. Do I expect mana…

You believe they are wrong so strongly you are willing to be out of a job rather than let them play the game which just happens to make your job easier and see what happens? I don’t understand that attitude. Couldn’t you just do as you were told and use AI to the best of your abilities making sure it doesn’t push broken code? You can even have fun coding by hand while your agents are doing other stuff behind the scen…

It's a tool. I use it as a tool. I'm a pragmatist as much as I'm a skeptic. In the one phone screen I've had since April (!) I was asked if I could be a cheerleader for it. I can't do that. So far I haven't seen very many jobs that want pragmatists because most of the job descriptions say that they want cheerleaders.

I haven't talked myself out of a job, the market has said it doesn't need my experience because I can't talk myself in to a new type of job (of being what I consider to be a liar or a grifter). That's not a job that I want, unfortunately my sense of professional ethics is too strong.

But also, yes I have done enough Legacy Code work in my career that I don't think I want to deal with "Legacy Code as a Service" machines and companies spraying entire geological layers of Legacy Code as fast as they can across as much of the company as they can. That's a sustainability crisis that doesn't sound like it is going to be fun to maintain in 3 years from now (or fewer) when companies realize what they encouraged to happen and how much "new" code they need archaeologists for and have few to no maps of.

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