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AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

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Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#331

Post by JohnFen »

brainwad wrote: post #287
torh wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least there will be a copy left for us. The AI companies won't share these books in their original form.

Because it's illegal. That's the whole reason they are shredding books in the first place, because copyright law forces them to do stupid things. Google wanted to share the whole of Google Books 15 years ago, too, but they were sued to hell, so now you get a watered down search functionality.

> because copyright law forces them to do stupid things.

Baloney. They aren't forced to destroy books. They could leave well enough alone and not scan them to begin with. They're voluntarily choosing to do this.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#332

Post by Filligree »

quietsegfault wrote: post #317
squidbeak wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A book is really just a stack of paper, I don't get the sacred feeling attached to it. Especially since books are printed in thousands to millions of identical copies. If you've read the articles covering this issue, you'll be aware the concern is over the fate of rare and out of print books, rather than your straw man (ie those available in 'thousands to millions' of copies). https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3r…

Rare and out of print does not mean important or valuable.

Usually it means the opposite. Books that are old and valuable tend to be out of copyright, so they do see new printing runs.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#333

Post by subscribed »

brainwad wrote: post #287
torh wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least there will be a copy left for us. The AI companies won't share these books in their original form.

Because it's illegal. That's the whole reason they are shredding books in the first place, because copyright law forces them to do stupid things. Google wanted to share the whole of Google Books 15 years ago, too, but they were sued to hell, so now you get a watered down search functionality.

Copyright law didn't force them to torrent terabytes of books what they did and got caught doing so.

I'm not convinced they destroy the books to obey the law, lol.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#334

Post by azatom »

pmoriarty wrote: post #315

Because of copyright issues, countless books between around the 1930s until about 2000 were never digitized. After around 2000 books started coming out in digital format, so at least there are digital copies of many of those, even if they are still under copyright.

I dunno, that "at least" worries me, digital actually more easier to be lost if it is under copyright, they just got deleted if they can not produce enough money. Physical may have higher chance to survive.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#335

Post by vasco »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #319

You ask "Why destroy physical books?" I ask "Why save physical books?" If they are truly rare, then they are likely not valuable, otherwise there would be more copies or their contents could be found elsewhere. Owning and storing physical books is not free, there is a real cost. Even owning and storing the scans is not free, especially when IP rights and challenges get involved, since a scanned book with no distribut…

I agree with you for the same reason I think McDonald's is the best restaurant in the world!

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#336

Post by joshstrange »

squidbeak wrote: post #310
joshstrange wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rare by whose definition? I’m not aiming this at you directly by: ISBNs or STFU Show me which “rare” books they are destroying and _maybe_ I’ll care but so far the pearl-clutching over this leads me to believe it’s people worked up about the idea of destroying (except it’s not destroying, it’s transforming, a fact often ignored) books, books that it’s not clear at all there is any strong demand for. People want to in…

> Show me which “rare” books they are destroying and _maybe_ I’ll care but so far the pearl-clutching over this BBC good enough for you? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3rprx2wl4o "A recent academic text published in only 100 copies, 75 of which are already in libraries, may be very rare on the market - but it is perhaps not such a great loss if one copy is destroyed," says Derek Walker, owner of Edinburgh booksh…

It would be if it made the point you think it is. All of this is more and more hand waving. 75 copies in museums? Then I think we’re good. As for the 18th century books, that’s pure speculation. It’s like a museum saying, “yes we have they prints for sale that they keep buying and destroying but wouldn’t it be a shame if someone destroyed the actual Mona Lisa?”.

And lastly, if these books are so important, then don’t sell them, hold onto them, digitize them without destroying them. This isn’t complicated. Amazon/etc aren’t breaking into museums and libraries, they are buying books on the open market.

If these books are so rare and important, then why has no one cared until now to actually preserve them?

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#338

Post by silverwind »

mbeavitt wrote: post #307
ziyadb wrote: post #299

I was surprised to read that Anthropic (and probably other data / model companies) are doing this and it's extremely disappointing, as working towards the benefit of humanity is not an exclusive right / domain of theirs but rather, is a shared responsibility and mission carried by all of humanity itself as a collective responsibility. Thus, the preservation of this knowledge, its availability, and accessibility are t…

From their perspective, it's training data that their competitors don't have. If they make it available, they fill in their moat.

More importantly: Once Anthropic is gone, all knowlege is lost.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#339

Post by carlosjobim »

I would suppose that most of the rare books in the world aren't for sale, so run no risk of being digitized and destroyed by Anthropic? They are probably forgotten somewhere on a shelf or in a box, slowly rotting. The reason these books are rare being that nobody wants them.

Re: AI companies destroy physical books – let's scan rare books before it's too late

#340

Post by yehat »

HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #325
alerighi wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but let's continue using Claude to write code because we suck at programming. Really the only way out of this is to STOP NOW using AI and use our brain instead. These company will just shut down if we stop using, and thus paying, for their services. Come on, we did without AI for all our history, we could live without it with no issue (as to me we could live without smartphones, internet, etc if we want).

we also did without air conditioning, plumbing, democracy, and human rights for millenia, and I wouldn't want to give any of those up

Nobody will ask you, they'll be taken from you, in case you missed what happens around.
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