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Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

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Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#81

Post by pjc50 »

roenxi wrote: post #74
pjc50 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why we keep hitting the Russians 1) "we" (the US) are not hitting the Russians, "we" (Europe including the UK) are providing them with weapons for their self-defence, since it is in our interest to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe happening on the Polish border. I am no longer clear what, if any, assistance the US is providing. It is also very important in this that no NATO or EU forces are engaged directly with…

> since it is in our interest to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe happening on the Polish border. If your argument is preventing trouble on the Polish border, why is the strategy dumping billions and billions of dollars in weapons into the most corrupt country in Europe, who happens to be on the Polish border? Keeping a conflict worthy of WWII smouldering in the area for more than 4 years now? The sensible thing to…

> "sensible"

According to what idea of "sensible"?

> encourage a Ukrainian surrender early on and send them some food/whatnot in a care package, then fortify the Polish border.

This would still have resulted in millions of refugees, plus some unknown number of people killed by Russian forces exterminating any local pro-Europe political supporters. Remember Euromaidan. It also snuffs out a democracy, which is not a good precedent to set.

The second motivation is the belief that the invasion, if permitted, will not stop at Ukraine. This is why Finland and Sweden joined NATO after it happened.

> Keeping a conflict worthy of WWII smouldering in the area for more than 4 years now?

Russia can retreat into their internationally recognized borders at any time.

> Can we please be honest about our motivations here?

Can we be honest about the motivations of Russia in capturing and annexing other countries, something forbidden by both the post-WW2 international order and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum (which also justifies Europe's security provision to Ukraine)?

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#83

Post by pjc50 »

cpursley wrote: post #76
roenxi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, we can't tell if the US has a goal or not in the middle east or if destabilising countries is the geostrategy unto itself. People really need to dial down the hype, engage with the real world where large countries get to have a sphere of influence and start talking realistically about what behaviour is tolerable. I still haven't heard anyone make a case for why we keep hitting the Russians given wh…

What do you mean “we can’t tell”? For those who aren’t aware, the war against Iran (direct, they don’t have nukes yet) and Russia (via Ukraine proxy, Russia has nukes) as well as Venezuela (infiltrate their power structure and bribe off) are actually the same war: they are multi front (financial, energy, technical; ranging from soft to kinetic) geopolitical “containment” strategies. The US/UK/EU think tank and others…

Russia is the odd one out here, in that it was started by Russian incursions as far back as 2014: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea

The think tank argument is very valid though. You can no longer find "Project for the new American Century" online, but they laid out the invasion of Iraq before 9/11 (the pretext) even happened.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#84

Post by Lio »

roenxi wrote: post #59
bulbar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dictatorship with the explicit goal of invading Taiwan, which is not only a close ally, but also of global geostrategic importance. That's not "hype".

On the other hand, we can't tell if the US has a goal or not in the middle east or if destabilising countries is the geostrategy unto itself. People really need to dial down the hype, engage with the real world where large countries get to have a sphere of influence and start talking realistically about what behaviour is tolerable. I still haven't heard anyone make a case for why we keep hitting the Russians given wh…

> One of the two is worse and it isn't the policies written in Cyrillic.

I can't tell if you're a tankie or a bot but Russia is right now conducting an unprovoked war against a democracy with no foreign policy goal other than to destroy Ukraine and seize its assets.

Where Russia has been forced out of Ukraine it's left behind war crimes and mass civilian graves. So experience shows, there is no safe surrender for Ukraine, they have to fight until they win.

There is no world where Putin's Russia is the good guys.

Remember, Putin is the only person with the luxury of stopping the war any time he likes.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#85

Post by pjc50 »

villish wrote: post #23
tonyhart7 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can badmouth about China all you want but at least they are consistent where they stand while US flip flopping about invading middle east (like usual) or Greenland

Did you forget about what happened with Hong Kong?

The eradication of democracy in HK is extremely sad, but unfortunately it was only ever leased from China and the UK did not have a sound basis in international law for not handing it back.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#86

Post by cpursley »

pjc50 wrote: post #83
cpursley wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean “we can’t tell”? For those who aren’t aware, the war against Iran (direct, they don’t have nukes yet) and Russia (via Ukraine proxy, Russia has nukes) as well as Venezuela (infiltrate their power structure and bribe off) are actually the same war: they are multi front (financial, energy, technical; ranging from soft to kinetic) geopolitical “containment” strategies. The US/UK/EU think tank and others…

Russia is the odd one out here, in that it was started by Russian incursions as far back as 2014: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea The think tank argument is very valid though. You can no longer find "Project for the new American Century" online, but they laid out the invasion of Iraq before 9/11 (the pretext) even happened.

Gosh, now I wonder why they would have possibly intervened at that particular time. No geopolitical analysts anywhere could have ever predicted the reaction of Russia to the possibility of Sevastopol becoming a NATO Naval base and US forward strike forces and missile base setting up shop just 250 miles away from Moscow...

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#87

Post by watwut »

roenxi wrote: post #59
bulbar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dictatorship with the explicit goal of invading Taiwan, which is not only a close ally, but also of global geostrategic importance. That's not "hype".

On the other hand, we can't tell if the US has a goal or not in the middle east or if destabilising countries is the geostrategy unto itself. People really need to dial down the hype, engage with the real world where large countries get to have a sphere of influence and start talking realistically about what behaviour is tolerable. I still haven't heard anyone make a case for why we keep hitting the Russians given wh…

> why we keep hitting the Russian

US was basically supporting Russian invasion in negotiations. What are you on about here.

EU is supporting Ukraine in their self defense. Eu also know they are the next if Ukraine falls. USA did the right thing in the beginning, but as Trump gained power, his admiration to autocrats made him switch the sides.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#88

Post by watwut »

roenxi wrote: post #74
pjc50 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why we keep hitting the Russians 1) "we" (the US) are not hitting the Russians, "we" (Europe including the UK) are providing them with weapons for their self-defence, since it is in our interest to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe happening on the Polish border. I am no longer clear what, if any, assistance the US is providing. It is also very important in this that no NATO or EU forces are engaged directly with…

> since it is in our interest to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe happening on the Polish border. If your argument is preventing trouble on the Polish border, why is the strategy dumping billions and billions of dollars in weapons into the most corrupt country in Europe, who happens to be on the Polish border? Keeping a conflict worthy of WWII smouldering in the area for more than 4 years now? The sensible thing to…

Most corrupt country in Europe is Belarus tied with Russia, depending on whether you count Russia as European.

Everything Russia touches becomes more corrupt. That includes Hungary btw. And speaking about it, that includes Ukraine - anti Russians politics was also the anti-corruption politics.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#89

Post by OroPla »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #57
bulbar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dictatorship with the explicit goal of invading Taiwan, which is not only a close ally, but also of global geostrategic importance. That's not "hype".

You're confusing "ally" and "vassal". Allies are countries that send troops to help you in war.

Allies will only help you if you are winning the war. Vassals will also help if you are losing.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#90

Post by OroPla »

accurrent wrote: post #77
tonyhart7 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

apparently China decision to ban US tech company and build their own counterpart is seen as Genius after 20 years

Government ban is part of the reason, but cultural differences are also important. There are other countries where Google is not the defacto search engine: South Korea, Japan, Russia, etc. Similarly if your were to look into food delivery companies/ridehailing you would also find many countries where Uber has completely failed.

Google results have gotten so bad, I have to wonder if it is still the defacto search engine anywhere or whether the numbers are simply made up.
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